Bienvenue à la Révolution!

[Nir 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

What is this here, some kind of "Moderator-Free War Zone????" .........Just askin'.........

Actually, there are no moderators here... hehe So I guess we'll have no choice but to tolerate those "other lizard" pictures....

D. Pogue a écrit:

Nir a écrit:

Wise Man a écrit:

In Nature, life is a constant struggle for snakes. When we change this in captivity, we fuck with Nature.

Do do you see a problem with snakes being fed exclusive diet of rodents. If varying is advantageous, what type of prey can we use.

Well, now that you mention it, Nick............I do think that this ridiculous Pet Trade Nonsense about "all snakes should be trained to take rodents" is just that. Nonsense. Yes, some snakes are exclusively rodent feeders...........we all get that..........but this notion that ALL snakes must consume ONLY lab-chow-fattened rodents that you purchase from the Pet Store is not only inaccurate, but in some cases injurious to the snakes' overall well-being, and maybe even bad for their reproductive systems in the long run, in some cases anyways. Many snakes are in fact dietary generalists, and since they have evolved over millenia this way, I think it's best we as keepers tried to accommodate them as best we can.

A friend made his master's degree in France on the thermogenesis and the response of the digestive tractus during feeding. One of his experiment consisted of feeding normal rats with an evaluated amount of 9.5 % fat content. Comparent to a snake fed a rat that had been starved before being killed. The resulting rat contained 3.5 % of fat. After feeding the two rats, the observation made were quite interesting. The snake which fed on the fat rat had his intestines epithelium full of fat after digestion. Which meant the snake had absorbed the fet quicker and now the fat blocked the absorption of the nutrient. The snake which fed on the lean rat had his epithelium nice and clean and a more effective digestion. Anyway, this is just a small part. But it was quite interesting!!

[JSI 0]

Thank you Don for the compliments on my photos. I get lucky with the camera sometimes.
I am proof you can have uber expensive camera stuff and still take crap shots. It really is all about the skill behind the lens. Also thank you very much for the examples of Drymarchon feeding habits. For someone like myself new to the genus the more information from people that actually know their stuff is very important.

AlexG mentioned their stinking ability, I don’t find them to be that bad. I keep mine on aspen and it absorbs all the moisture and smell right away. Maybe I’m hard of smelling or something(Seinfeld anyone?). I should try feeding them canned tuna maybe…….? I’ve heard that results in pretty foul excrement.

Nir also very interesting findings. Seems so common in modern herp keeping to feed snakes as much chubby rats as you can to make them big (gram weights and such) so they can be “breedable”. Really it makes no sense, is a overweight person a good healthy breeder…………nope.

Jeremy

[JSI 0]

One question for Don, are you putting your pair of D.c.melanurus together this season?

Jeremy

[bistrobob85111 0]

Hey, i'm glad that we're bringing up the subject of generalists/specialist feeders and what we feed them in captivity... This week, i was thinking of adding a certain ratio of chicks to my snakes diet. I believe that if some snakes are generalist feeders, why not give them more variety, for a change!!!!

That beefheart thing does inspire me, Don, not to mention some pics you posted of your Drymarchon eating canned fish and sausages... I'm sure that chicks can be a good and cheap alternative food source. I'm actually on the investigation for some supplies .

phil.

[pool 0]

Awesome pics Jeremy and ya'll, including Don

Between Don's couperi photographs and recently having had the good fortune to witness & handle Ryan's Drymarchon in the "flesh", so to speak, it makes it very tough to remain focused on what I wish to keep and that which I shall continue admire from afar [in other folks basements] ... Ya make it tough ..... and then there's infenalis and tetrataenia. Who can resist those painted on black velvet works of nature
...

Which reminds me, I don't know how one can "discriminate" between Boas & Pythons ... do you ? ...

There's no doubt that Thamnophis are not a beginners snake. In terms of the attention needed to their diet and husbandry requirements, they probably require more time and thought than anything else I own. However they are also among the most rewarding in terms of "entertainment value" & endless fascination ... not to mention moments of wonderment ... uuum ... yup

T. cyrtopsis while having a more conical cross section to begin with than other Thamnophis I currently keep, they are also far more susceptible to building up fat if given a frequent all rodentia diet.

I don't have any more cyrtopsis pics at hand, but will these do ...





These fellas won't turn pink, but are already exhibiting signs of the ontogenetic change to come .. which these pics are not a representation of ...





ps I had a bird eating spider once, but can't say I've ever kept a pet bee
pps dancing with the machine
ppps shades of brown

[bistrobob85111 0]

NO WAY, a baby Rhinechis scalaris!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh, Paul, i want my own!!!!

phil.

[Melanie76 0]

Hey! I was feeding everyone tonight, and I decided to snap a pic of my cranky Vee-bee-bee..

After they eat, I have to cover them with a cloth, as they will strike at anything that moves for a while after, but I couldn't resist snapping a pic of this pretty face!!

[Nir 0]

Cool Viet Mel!!

ps. Who would've thought Myrna would retire??

[Spankenstyne 0]

That's a fantastic shot of the Vee-beebee.
"The casket" is kinda ominous, me like.

[Melanie76 0]

Spankenstyne a écrit:

That's a fantastic shot of the Vee-beebee.
"The casket" is kinda ominous, me like.

Thanks guys!

The Casket..Is the name of the local paper in my home town..lol

[bistrobob85111 0]

I'm surprised that Paul's ladder snakes dont raise more interest... i guess that makes them all more jumpy and worthless . I'm defenetly really interested in knowing more...

Where did it come from? How many do you have? Can we see more pics? Where can i get my own?

I love that specie... i'm planning on importing some bloodlines of that specie from Europe and from the States to get some genetic diversity and share some with you guys, whenever it all becomes possible...

phil.

[Spankenstyne 0]

Oh hah, for some reason I missed the ladder pictures. Very nice looking examples. Dave Royans in the UK has some beautiful ones as well. Might that be where you're looking Phil?

[pool 0]

Melanie, your VBB is looking very sharp indeed. Do you happen to have pics of the adults it's "down from" . I've been wondering for a while
now about their color change as they "mature". As near as I can tell the majority tend to lose the yellow coloration & the blue
intensifies ... but any insight you could share would be appreciated. On another note, quite a few that are floating around in the US, I'm
told, have been crossed with fresei ...

Spankenstyne, If I recall Dave Royans is the fellow who posted a scalaris thread on TARAS ? I love that silver adult he used to own.

bistrobob85 a écrit:

I'm surprised that Paul's ladder snakes dont raise more
interest...phil.

I would be more surprised if there had been no enthusiastic "interest" from you, Phil I think perhaps maybe quite often with these picture heavy threads some of the pictures don't get a chance to load ...

It's a single male that came through a wholesaler, so I'm unsure of it's origin in terms of who bred it or locale. I'm aware of there being another
08 pair in Ontario which originated from Scott Johns in the US who produces both Spanish & French locales. No doubt, I'll be on the look out for more in
the near future. I know they have been referred to as the "European Pituophis", but they are very unique in terms of behavior and morphology. I'd expand on that, but I think you will appreciate experiencing their "character" first hand [when you get some] without a preview

Here's a couple of more recent pics ...





ps oh, and up back there, prior to this, I meant "circular", not "conical"... what was I [not] thinking ... the cost of freedom ... hmmm
pps I hear it's been requested that your talents attend a wedding, Mr, D.

[cowboy xav 0]

bistrobob85 a écrit:

I'm surprised that Paul's ladder snakes dont raise more interest... i guess that makes them all more jumpy and worthless . I'm defenetly really interested in knowing more...

Where did it come from? How many do you have? Can we see more pics? Where can i get my own?

I love that specie... i'm planning on importing some bloodlines of that specie from Europe and from the States to get some genetic diversity and share some with you guys, whenever it all becomes possible...

phil.

in my case, even if I dont post, I look at this thread every day. I love species that we rarely see in captivity! my favorite species on the thread is Drymobius margaritiferus and Chrysopelea ornata!

[Nir 0]

R. Scalaris is a great looking species!

But I don't like it very much because they went hiding when I arrived to southern france last summer... I searched for these guys in prime habitat for a couple of days... Didn't see any. I did see cool vipers though...

Great looking male Paul! Has it started it's colour change?

[JSI 0]

pool a écrit:

I know they have been referred to as the "European Pituophis", but they are very unique in terms of behavior and morphology. I'd expand on that, but I think you will appreciate experiencing their "character"

I'd like to know more about this character. Interesting snake behavior is one of the more important things I look for in captive snakes. Sure they have to be "purdy" but I like personality more.


Jeremy

[bistrobob85111 0]

Beautiful snake, Paul... Let's hope we can get our hands on some more . Actually, i was more looking thorwards Danmark for colubrids...

Those Europeans and Americans do have some stuff we can envy... until we get our own, MOUAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!

phil.

[Melanie76 0]

Thanks Pool. I've seen both really dark blue adults, and also, high yellow. From what I've seen they seem to retain the most yellow on the top of their lower body. My female is more of a cream color,and the male is more yellow than the female. The pictures that I have are well over a year old and don't really pick up the yellow on the males lower half. I'll try and get some updated ones.

This is the female, obviously, just after laying last year



And the male, I guess the yellow does show up in this picture quite well.


I haven't heard of them being crossed with Tai's, but hopefully not.. Thou, I'm sure if you read it somewhere, it's very possible. Info on these guys, at least on the internet seems to be very limited. I had very blue hatchlings, with no yellow, to ones that were almost a neon yellowish green when they were first out. Like this one.




This one was more cream and blue


After a few sheds, their colors changed dramatically. Most were blue, but a few are holding the yellow. I only have 3 left, But after they digest their last meal, which should only be a few days, the little crappers..lol, I'll try and get some updated pics.

Excellent thread Gentlemen! This is what I like, actually seeing species I've never seen before, and actually LEARNING something from the posts. Gotta love it!

Cheers

[JSI 0]

Yellow's, blues, greens, how about some nice black snakes!!









Pitouphis.melanoleucus.lodingi aka Black Pine Snake.

Jeremy

[Nir 0]

Beautiful lodingi Jeremy!!

Here are fresh Tropical Chicken Snakes Pictures. And he is freshly shed too.






And because I want too... This gal WAS Jumpy!! Hehe

[Mya1 0]

le black est trop beau

[JSI 0]

Mya a écrit:

le black est trop beau

If only I could take a decent picture

Nice Spilotes Nir, a snake I have always admired but never kept so far.

Jeremy

[Spankenstyne 0]

JSI a écrit:

If only I could take a decent picture

Nice Spilotes Nir, a snake I have always admired but never kept so far.

Jeremy

Jeremy, nice looking wee lodingi.

I hear ya on the Spilotes. I was for all intents & purposes unaware of them until probably a couple of years ago, unfortunately they're illegal in Alberta which partly explains my lack of exposure to them... Some of the great pictures from the old VIP lounge and more recently here really show how beautiful & interesting they are.

Now if only Spring would show up sooner... More snow here....

-AnxiouslyawaitingOprah-

[LD/50 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

ps - I do know what a "TFSA" is, Jeremy. It's what the "Investment-Quality-Investment"-types SHOULD be doing with their money...........but they're NOT.........check out this shiny-noo poster......

Hahahahahahaha!!

I haven't logged in for a few days, I see this poster, I can't stop laughing now

"If the shoe fits, wear it!"

Thanks everyone for the amazing color-brid pics. You guys and girls (hi Melanie CoolSnake Chick! ) have a great variety in your collections, I hope to add some new J&W's to mine soon. For now, I just set up my female plains hognose in a 40 gallon aquarium because she seemed too cramped in her old 20 gallon. But now I read on another "big" Canadian forum that some "experts" there say that "aquariums are for FISH!!", one really snotty guy in particular seems to enjoy making fun of kids who put up pics of their pets in glass tanks . So my question is, I remember seeing pics of DP's setup and he uses aquariums for lots of things (garters etc.). So "who's the 'expert' here?" The guy who has kept every kind of snake on the planet, or the internet tough guy who has kept nothing but BP's for a few years??

Mr. P., please help me, I'm confused , and I don't want my snake to suffer in a 40 gallon tank if she would be better off in a tiny plastic box with a layer of newspaper. Your advice would be appreciated, sir.

steven
PS "Aquariums are for FISH!!"
PPS Bottom feeders

[D. Pogue 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

D. Pogue a écrit:

ps - I do know what a "TFSA" is, Jeremy. It's what the "Investment-Quality-Investment"-types SHOULD be doing with their money...........but they're NOT.........check out this shiny-noo poster......

Hahahahahahaha!!

I haven't logged in for a few days, I see this poster, I can't stop laughing now
Mr. P., please help me, I'm confused , and I don't want my snake to suffer in a 40 gallon tank if she would be better off in a tiny plastic box with a layer of newspaper. Your advice would be appreciated, sir.

Nice to see somebody found that poster funny........or revealing.......I think what you're really asking for, Steven, is another "poster".........so here's another poster.....




And another.......




That's enough of the funny stuff. Although there will be more to come, I assure you all.

I really love those shots from "pool" of the "used-to-be-an-Elaphe-but-it-isn't-anymore-snake".......interesting contribution, to be sure! And thanks to Jeremy for the evil Black Pine pics........thanks also to Cool Snake Chick Melanie for the VBB shots . "AlexG", of course, totally rocks here. The same could easily be said about "Nir" with his Spilotes pics. Keep up the good work, you guys!

As far as the debate (such as it is) on "aquariums" goes........well, let's just say that if you have kept snakes for your entire life, you will have made use of an "aquarium" or two.......or three.....or ten...........in your time. I'd be wary of accepting any "advice" from anyone who clearly spends all day on the "internet" monitoring one Low-Rent Website for prospective sales. This includes, of course, "financial advice" of the sort that tells you to "buy lots of Ball Python morphs" to "secure your financial future". Anyone here ever look up the defintion of a "pyramid scheme"???

I think I can safely say that (a) Not all snakes belong in little plastic drawers, and (b) for many smaller species of snakes, especially diurnal ones, an "aquarium" is the ideal enclosure. I use "aquariums" for ALL of my small diurnal snakes, including Garters and Coachwhips. Whoever this twit is, I rather doubt he knows anything about herps other than how to propagate one species of deformed snake for his own fun and profit. What that has to do with "Herpetology" or "Evolutionary Biology" is beyond me.

Regards,
D.

ps - "Don't take those guys too seriously. I know I don't"
pps- To "Spankenstyne".........Oprah is currently eating me out of "house and home". The snake, not the obese talk show host, silly......

[Jon Davidson 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

'... I just set up my female plains hognose in a 40 gallon aquarium because she seemed too cramped in her old 20 gallon. But now I read on another "big" Canadian forum that some "experts" there say that "aquariums are for FISH!!", one really snotty guy in particular seems to enjoy making fun of kids who put up pics of their pets in glass tanks . So my question is, I remember seeing pics of DP's setup and he uses aquariums for lots of things (garters etc.). So "who's the 'expert' here?" The guy who has kept every kind of snake on the planet, or the internet tough guy who has kept nothing but BP's for a few years??

Mr. P., please help me, I'm confused , and I don't want my snake to suffer in a 40 gallon tank if she would be better off in a tiny plastic box with a layer of newspaper. Your advice would be appreciated, sir.

steven
PS "Aquariums are for FISH!!"
PPS Bottom feeders

Hmmm... Please excuse me for interupting, but I've been keeping snakes for some time now, and with only a couple of diversions, have always kept my live specimens in glass aquariums with weighted screen tops. Perhaps this internet expert will come and express his opinion on this Forum... I would be delighted to debate him on the issue. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Jon Davidson 0]

I wonder how well Mr. Pogue's excellent Drymarchon poster would be received on that other Reptile web site...? Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[AlexG11 0]

ahahahaha Don I've been corrected by a visitor once in a reptile show use the term ''aquarium'' instead of using Terrarium Or Vivarium , because I doupt you are keeping your garters as goldfishes... The joy of reptile shows...

Don pleaaaase keep posting pictures of those incredible Indogos... can't get enough!!
A little spider ball would be an awesome meal as your ''Mutant-Retard'' they love to play dead or fake some Stargazin! what a pet!

I found some old ass pictures I took 7 8 years ago of some jumpy and worthless...50Bucks!... That was a real cool Vinesnake it Was Gold... I dont know what happened to it was eating well for about a year and capout.... I might get to see another one!





Alex

PS Sorry about the quality of the pictures....it's as good as the Quality of your lovely Oprah tv show...
PPS anyone has any Telescopus personnal pictures?! Id love to have some feedbacks
PPPS Don can you send me a bigger Resolution of these picture frames? lol I'd like to get some printed for the reptile room?! Specialy to give to some Mutant-Retard producer...

[Nir 0]

This is why I love this guy!! (Points Don Pogue with his thumb and starts laughing) hehe

I was very tired from studying yesterday. You know, learning useless stuff on conservation and how and why we should preserve what's left of this damn nature. Instead I could be learning how to make money, but noooo. Anyway, long story short, I was tired from studying and so I saw this poster... I must've laughed for a good 10 minutes!! And I have the same request as Alex. Would love to have it in full resolution so I can print it and proudly display it in the "reptiles room"....

I guess I feel a bit cheap about keeping a 4 feet ratsnake in 72 gallon tank. I knew it was made for fish, but I had to use the space.... I guess that even if I have the correct temps, with tons of branches, big water bowls and lots (and I mean lots) of space for him to use, it's still a fish tank...Damn



ps- FISH tank, don't you get it!?!?!?
ps- But if the snake eats fish? is it ok then...
ps- promoting the cheapest way to keep snake to sell more (isn't this called mar-ke-ting?)

[JSI 0]

So when did these experts decide that a plastic storage bin was the best designed reptile enclosure? We all use them, but I would say they are far from perfect. The only positive aspect of them is they’re cheap.

I use “fish tanks”. For species that are bright, colourful and active why would I want them stuffed in a bin and I can only see them through the haze of foggy plastic. They work perfectly for Thamnophis. I prefer the plastic enclosures with sliding glass doors but those wont work with small snake as the gap between the glass is a bit to tempting for a young garter and they will try and wedge themselves between it in a effort to escape. The plastic ones are also pretty damn expensive.

Another thing I’m not to fond of on other sites is the preaching that snakes don’t need light so you shouldn’t use light to heat snake “tanks”. I use lights to heat most of mine. It’s a great sight in the morning to turn on the lights and have some brightly coloured Amazon Tree Boas hanging down looking at you, have some Garters heads poking out from under pieces of bark, and a Cribo looking at you from under her hide. Just because sand boas and ball pythons live under rocks doesn’t mean that the care for them is universal in reptile keeping.

The industrial breeders really have started to preach that their way is the only way. No way can a Ball python live in a fish tank right? It will go off food in anything larger than a (insert whatever model number Rubbermaid they all use, it’s got a 2 in it or something). Back when I got my first Ball Python, in the 90s when there wasn’t things like kingsnake.com to tell me how to do everything. So I figured most of it out on my own. Raised that snake in a big “fish tank” I’m not sure the actual size but I would say it was a 55gallon (208 liters, you know this is Canada we’re supposed to be using the metric system). Snake ate well, was active and never had any issues with shedding or really anything. If I was to say post pictures of that setup now I would me mocked and laughed at.

The notion of encouraging inbreeding is totally ridiculous. Ok fine, Rosy boa’s live in piles of rocks and breed with their parents and siblings? If you say so. That logic shouldn’t be applied to all snakes. I’ve seen first had what inbreeding can do to Pitouphis. Guys like Andy Beleny and Don Pogue produce top quality animals. I don’t know if they’ve done any line breeding but I would doubt it, and if so it would be minimal. Some of the crap that breeders in the US and even here in Canada do really degrades the animals. We have terms like “star gazing” and “wobble head” and they become almost acceptable. These are just the obvious physical signs of genetic degradation.

Jeremy


P.S. Coyote Whisperer
P.S.S. Garter snake breeding program?
P.S.S.S I don’t have to prove anything to you by showing you pictures!!!! You mean nothing to me!!!!!

[Melanie76 0]

P.S.S.S.S Cricket Eater...

Coyote Whisperer...LoL

[Jon Davidson 0]

Nir a écrit:

I was very tired from studying yesterday. You know, learning useless stuff on conservation and how and why we should preserve what's left of this damn nature.

Have you learned anything recently about fossil Viperidae, Mr. Nir? Just wondering. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Nir 0]

Actually, I didn't find the article you suggested, but I found this one which was quite interesting!

Snake fangs from the Lower Miocene of Germany: evolutionary stability of perfect weapons

Here is the abstract :

Abstract: There is a general consensus that most of today's nonvenomous snakes are descendants of venomous snakes that lost their venomous capabilities secondarily. This implies that the evolutionary history of venomous snakes and their venom apparatus should be older than the current evidence from the fossil record. We compared some of the oldest-known fossil snake fangs from the Lower Miocene of Germany with those of modern viperids and elapids and found their morphology to be indistinguishable from the modern forms. The primary function of recent elapid and viperid snake fangs is to facilitate the extremely rapid, stab-like application of highly toxic venoms. Our findings therefore indicate that the other components of the venom-delivery system of Early Miocene vipers and elapids were also highly developed, and that these snakes used their venom in the same way as their modern relatives. Thus, the fossil record supports the view that snakes used their venoms to rapidly subdue prey long before the mid-Tertiary onset of the global environmental changes that seem to have supported the successful radiation of venomous snakes.

[JSI 0]

Interesting stuff Nir.

Maybe you could help me with something. Thanks to Mr.Pogue I’ve become increasingly interested in the Drymarchon genus and have been looking for any information on their evolution. I’ve tried getting information from various sources but have come up dry (pun intended). There seems to be some link to elapids but nothing other than hearsay that I’ve found.

Could you, or Jon or anyone else shed some light on this subject? It would be greatly appreciated.

Jeremy

[LD/50 0]

Jon Davidson a écrit:

I wonder how well Mr. Pogue's excellent Drymarchon poster would be received on that other Reptile web site...? Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Well, I think we all know the answer to that Mr. Davidson, I think both you and I would get banned (again) for laughing at it, maybe we'd even get banned just for knowing or agreeing with Mr. Pogue! LOL

The two new posters are brilliant, I agree with AlexG and Nick, I want a copy for my room too (all 3 of them, please ). Thanks Don and Jon for the info on the 'aquariums' question too. At least some of us know who the real 'experts' are LOL.

I'm learning things every time I check this great thread.

steven

PS 'banned'
PPs I'm going to try to write some French in my next post here, wish me luck LOL

[Jon Davidson 0]

Nir a écrit:

Actually, I didn't find the article you suggested, but I found this one which was quite interesting!

Snake fangs from the Lower Miocene of Germany: evolutionary stability of perfect weapons

Here is the abstract :

Abstract: There is a general consensus that most of today's nonvenomous snakes are descendants of venomous snakes that lost their venomous capabilities secondarily. This implies that the evolutionary history of venomous snakes and their venom apparatus should be older than the current evidence from the fossil record. We compared some of the oldest-known fossil snake fangs from the Lower Miocene of Germany with those of modern viperids and elapids and found their morphology to be indistinguishable from the modern forms. The primary function of recent elapid and viperid snake fangs is to facilitate the extremely rapid, stab-like application of highly toxic venoms. Our findings therefore indicate that the other components of the venom-delivery system of Early Miocene vipers and elapids were also highly developed, and that these snakes used their venom in the same way as their modern relatives. Thus, the fossil record supports the view that snakes used their venoms to rapidly subdue prey long before the mid-Tertiary onset of the global environmental changes that seem to have supported the successful radiation of venomous snakes.

Thanks for the update and explanation. Perhaps if you had taken a moment to at least acknowledge the information that I provided to you specifically then I might have been able to supply you with a copy. You may find that locating good quality research papers can take more than a cursory 'google' search. But no worries. Live and learn. By the way can you please tell us who the authors are of this abstract and from when and what journal it was published? I'm sure that your teachers at school would ask you a similar question. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Nir 0]

I did see the information you left for me. I did a quick search for the assay on Web of Science and did not come up with the essay you suggested but insteat came up with this one and a bunch of others... I thought I'd share it here. I almost never use google for scientific search.
I am very occupied with the midterm exams right now and didn't have time to give some thought to it...

If you want authors and journal it was published in, here they are.

Kuch U, Muller J, Modden C, Mebs D (2006) Snake fangs from the Lower Miocene of Germany: evolutionary stability of perfect weapons, NATURWISSENSCHAFTEN vol 93-2 p 84-87

[D. Pogue 0]

Mya a écrit:

le black est trop beau

Bien, Maya, j'espère que vous aimerez ces serpents noirs autant que les autres. Ils sont des "Melanistic Garter Snakes", ont trouvé naturellement dans beaucoup d'endroits dans Ontario du sud. Ce sont certains de mes serpents préférés à trouver en nature.






























I have been thinking about this silly "debate" on the validity of keeping snakes in "aquariums", and it occurs to me that perhaps one of these dull-witted, pompous "experts" should join Repticlic, come on to this Thread, and state his or her "informed opinion" about this strangely (and suddenly) contentious subject, and then attempt to defend this "expert" opinion with either myself or Master Debator Jon Davidson. I don't know about the rest of you, but I like a good debate, especially where the opposition is doomed by his own stupidity from the get-go. I particularly enjoy reading Mr. Davidson's always concise, to-the-point responses. Something about all that blood on the floor that never fails to make me smile......... .

Regards,
D.
ps - "Banned"
pps - Offering help to people who don't really want to change is a waste of time, I have found. Let them live in their extremely narrowly-defined universe, I suppose. It just gets tiresome doing this all the time.........

[Jon Davidson 0]

Nir a écrit:

I did see the information you left for me. I did a quick search for the assay on Web of Science and did not come up with the essay you suggested but insteat came up with this one and a bunch of others... I thought I'd share it here. I almost never use google for scientific search.
I am very occupied with the midterm exams right now and didn't have time to give some thought to it...

I appreciate your response. Good luck, Mr. Nir. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Jon Davidson 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

pps - Offering help to people who don't really want to change is a waste of time, I have found. Let them live in their extremely narrowly-defined universe...'

Thank you for the kind words, Mr. Pogue. I'm sure that there would be other members besides myself who would enjoy seeing one of these internet experts from that other site come here and attempt to engage you in this open forum(MFWZ). Thank you for the photographs of melanistic Thamnophis. What beautiful little beasts! Sincerely, Jon Davidson . Writer's edit: for clarity and succinctness.

[Jon Davidson 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

'...I think both you and I would get banned (again) for laughing at it, maybe we'd even get banned just for knowing or agreeing with Mr. Pogue! LOL

A caution may be required here, Mr. LD/50, for your inflammatory innuendo...(wink). Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Spankenstyne 0]

Is it just me or is it getting a little melanistic in here... Time for a little colour

[D. Pogue 0]

Good point, Chris..........this Thread needs some colour .

Do these pics fit the bill?

Adult male Pituophis d. jani, still in hibernation......



A few old shots showing his true colours......















Regards,
D.

ps - "Real Colour"
pps -

[Melanie76 0]

Mexican Pines Is there a drooling smiley ? I tried to find some of these a year or 2 ago! I think you posted in my thread actually Don. Only you if I remember correctly.

So, I was wondering, can I move in to your snake room. I'll bunk with the coachwhips. I have no problem with that.

[D. Pogue 0]

I think I just proved the undeniable existence of a "drooling smiley" .......

As far as your moving into the snakeroom, Mel, I have Coachwips in both rooms now (adults downstairs, CB 2008 babies upstairs........so you'd likely have to shuttle between the two facilities .

Of course, you'd have to put up with a lot of these guys.......





Regards,
D.

ps - I'm away from the computer for a couple of days.......doing snake stuff.......See you all after the weekend .

[JSI 0]

That doesn't look like a rat tail hanging out of that couperi's mouth?


Jeremy

P.S. Pituophis is a great genus, so much diversity.

[stevie 0]

Wow,Mr.Pogue i wonder where you found those majestic Melanistic garters?See you come spring time.Cheers Stevie

[rancor_ 0]

But I will save it...For now...

But just to stir the "other snake" pot a little, here is a little project Ive been working on in my genetics facility. Nothing too serious... Just a :

CANDOIA HEADED DRAGON!!!!!!

Male:



And I was blessed enough by the oddjobgods to get an unrelated female :



Please note that they each guard they're own gemstone, otherwise they lock horns in an epic territorial dispute that spans more millennia than the Gaza strip.....

Post scriptum: Wild caught in situ...............

[Melanie76 0]

Great pics Rancor.. I love that w/c PM. I'm quite fond of them myself!! lol The SIGB isn't too shabby either!


Don...Works for me!!

[D. Pogue 0]

Bonsoir mes amis........

I just thought I'd drop in and post a few pics of some "RealSnakes" (tm). You know, the kind of snakes that would really make your day if you were lucky enough to find them in "The Wild"........as opposed to finding them in, say, a "Plastic Box"..........Remember that Vipera that Nick posted here a while back? That is most definitely a "RealSnake", and a true J&W Classic. That photo made my day, by the way......thanks again, "Nir".......

It doesn't get much more real than this, folks. A snake like the one in the following photos has no "Investment Value".........merely jaw-dropping beauty. I'd like to dedicate these next photographs to my friend Jon Davidson, a guy who has been an inspiration to me, and someone who should be an inspiration to all reptile keepers/students, making us all do just a little bit better. These are for you, Jon.

Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix, as it can be found in Henrico County, Virginia. Technically, this individual is likely a natural intergrade between the Northern and Southern subspecies, because the parents were originally collected where the two subspecies' ranges overlap. What a beauty.






















Maybe I'll finish up tonight with a song. I usually write all my own material, but this time I chose to co-opt and modify an existing bit, 'cause it just seemed so appropriate in this case. A few of you might actually have gotten this in an e-mail during the past summer. With apologies to Becker and Fagen, here it is........

MorphWhacker

In the beginning
We could hang with the dudes
But it's been too much of nothing
That stank attitude
"Now we curse your name
And there's a bounty on your face
It's your own fault, Corky"
MorphWhacker's on the case

We track your almighty ass through seven Heaven Worlds
Me, Slinky Yellowtail
And our trusty Angel-Girls
And when the stars bleed out
That be the fever of the chase
You better get gone, Corky
MorphWhacker's on the case

Be very very quiet
Clock everything you see
Little things might matter later
At the start of the end of history

Yes we are the MorphWhackers
Who rip and chop and slice
For crimes beyond imagining
It's time to pay the price
You better step back son
Give the man some whacking space
You know this might get messy
MorphWhacker's on the case

____________________________________________________________________________

M/O/D/P

ps - "Holy crap..........he's posted another song.........who the hell does he think he is??"
pps - "Well, he's no 'Morph Millionnaire', that's for sure!!"
ppps - "What kind of a freak makes fun of 'millionnaires', for cryin' out loud??"
pppps -
ppppps - "Cork Bark"
pppppps - "How To Put A Stick In An Aquarium.........parts 1-18........"