rancor_

Well, there is a couple things wrong with that statement. Its HARDLY us not being able to take someone else's differing opinion. Do you truly feel that after a 3 month conversation that has been going on here, you stumble across this thread, throw up a link to one that you started, and THIS is my introduction to you, Stav, as an individual. Forget about the rest of the post.... I've never even heard of you before, and this is your contribution to page 12 of a thread???? Forget about the rest of the ramblings in that post, this is how you communicate and attempt to debate after reading anything written here?? Oh and not to be a dick, but check out this link, it might explain something about that word you keep using....You know the one.... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/narcissism The amount of views something that takes time and effort to craft and create is the difference between continuing to put in the effort to post something publicly, or writing it in notepad and reading it when I need a smile... Or keeping the pictures saved on my hard drive... I could, however, care less about the amount of posts a user has. Most people with an exorbitant number of posts don't contribute proportionate amounts of substance and value. Not always, but usually. This is where we were invited, this is where we congregate and this is where we are sharing. Why is there such a desire for you to chop up threads?? It grows, evolves, changes direction and gets participated in. New people pop up, such as yourself, and it goes in a brand new, unexplored direction. Seems like a great read for someone a year later and stumbles apon a massive thread filled with a handful of crazys that think differently than most of what they've heard thus far.... Hopefully, we will soon be done with the focus ON you (see above link) and carry on with your participation in the lounge. Unlike the BeeKeeper, you will probably be able to add some relevance to the conversation. Take a seat here in the lounge, all are always welcome where ever it gets moved to . An opposing view is always welcome too, but let me do one more quote.... Just for fun. Post scriptum : I really do hate doing pull apart posts.... PPS : Gina, if the tabs on Mr. P, one more for the road..........

Well, I just did a search of this thread... Stav your name was mentioned **EDIT** previous to your apearance ** a total of 0 times. Its nice to see you have shouldered the entire burden of the ill that has infected the reptile keeping world, but I think that, aswell as your debate "style" is a shade over unnecessary. Seriously though, tail mutilation, forced regurgitation and mass hibernaculum genocide aside, its great to see you started off your love of reptiles with Canada's natural fauna. Why you see everything wrote here, on our MASSIVE 12 page thread as directed at yourself, is pretty narcissistic....Wouldn't you agree?? All cylinders might be firing, but it seems they're going at off at the same time, in the same direction... Catch my drift?? What I think you aren't quite getting, is that we were never under the impression that we WEREN'T supposed to have one big thread... Historically, it's kind of what we do. Also, at just under 5300 views, this is one of the most viewed threads here... If allowed to grow, what is the true harm??? See, I for one only have a rudimentary knowledge when it comes to French. It's probably a pretty safe bet that most of English speaking Canadians are the same... Whereas there is most likely a much higher ratio of French speaking Canadians that are fluent if not proficient in both of our national languages. It makes it hard to justify the handful of participants in this thread to stumble around starting thread after thread that receive maybe a hundred views. The content provided here should be considered gold with how in focus the pictures are and how eloquently a view is presented that is contrary to what is mainstream in a non-mainstream hobby. You see, it's not fear of debate that anyone here is talking about leaving over. We infact welcome it. But you cant debate with someone taking everything personally and jumping up and down calling everyone else a child. That would be like trying to keep a straight face after watching a monkey eat its own vomit from its hand... So if the big ol' banning hammer isn't being pulled out, and the gavel hasn't hit the sound block, then how's about you regroup and conduct yourself at the same adult level we all are striving to maintain. Or not. It's your website afterall........ Post Scriptum : Gina, another moose for me and Mr. Davidson, I haven't seen him around lately....

Turn out the lights and flip over the bar stools, this one looks like happy hour is over. Im not going to bother to engage you, Mr. Stav, even though you have hurled some rather petty and unnecessary names on us. A simple " Please leave my website" would have been sufficient. Do try and recall, we were invited here to carry on a thread that is now lost, just as this one is about to be. We were invited here to share our pictures and "msn" conversation and were under the impression that anyone and everyone would be welcome, and our main focus as a group seems to revolve around "other snakes". Contained in one thread, I would assume, would be much better than dispersed throughout the entire board. Afterall as you plainly put it, this is your French forum, and most of us can only communicate coherently in English. Rather than I stoop to what would be easy, I would instead like to simply Thank-you. It has been both educational and enlightening that which has transpired here on Repticlic. My hope is that this thread, this J&W Lounge, is left to stand as the information and views shared here are indeed timeless. - Rob Post scriptum : Gina darling.... Cheque please!

Let me get my "save page" button ready, as such frank, intelligent and educated postings about reptiles on a forum cant be up for too long.... Or can it? I think this whole issue is a cause that is more than lost now. Unfortunate really that whats being touted as the only leg to stand on is the fact that this reptile hobby is "big business". Pity though that the driving force behind the majority of actual dollars in this "industry" is derived from broken animals. Revenue generated from the sale of fake waterfalls and 15 dollar incandescent bulbs with a picture of a Pogona on the box PALE in comparison to what a snake with defective genes rakes in. It must, because there's only a handful of executives at the "big box" reptile companies... But every yokel with a pair of GMR's (genetically modified reptiles...(tm)) is driving a 7 series...... Add the fact that probably only a fraction of those pulling in the huge deformity dollars actually claim their income, giving the government something they actually care about, we are left standing in the bucket full of morph shit we are in today. A by and large useless group of people who are only visible to the public when one of us screws up. Not to say positive work isn't being done, education isn't happening or that conservation efforts are wasted... It just looks that way... Overwhelmingly. I'm also not saying that I personally am part of the solution...But I'm definitely not part of the problem though. This is truly a time for community awareness, and speakers for the masses. Scary thing is, I believe the majority ARE being represented by those hoisted up on their own petard. But its a-okay. They know best... Or at least they know better than me, afterall, I keep garter snakes. Justification and attempted rationalization are just 2 of the "tion's" that are currently being attempted to keep the morph money dream alive. Personally, I think if there is any reason to grow a 20 foot albino python and continue to propagate them in North America, its this... You ready?? Forward thinking ahead.......Seriously read on if you dare.... For Their Skins. Think about it..... People are basically farming these things anyways. Stuffed into a cage just large enough that the animal doesn't have to (hopefully) touch its own excrement after its expelled from its body. Fed as much as possible to get as big as possible as fast as possible. What better route to legitimization (theres another "tion") than to go the route of domestic farming. It would alleviate some of the pressures on wild populations hunted for their skins, and it would give Jenifer Lopez the shiniest funny coloured snakeskin boots around... Ok. Perhaps not one of my best ideas, but it would give purpose to reptiles with deleterious genes everywhere.... I dont know if I will ever produce a single reptile. This of course leaves me destined to not be taken seriously in the reptile world... However, what I do know is this - I will never produce more than could be quickly dispatched by Steve. Its just not worth wondering what kind of hands they could pass through when the novelty wears off. Sir Steve : Post Scriptum : Mr. Duff you are indeed a most welcome addition to our lounge. Tell Gina your tab is on me for the evening!

It seems me that it is rather commonplace in this, the hobby of reptile keeping, that everyone should be able to hold hostage in their domicile whatever they damn well please. I often wonder, “Why?” Philosophical of me I know, but think about it... Why should “we” be able to keep whatever “we” choose? There are reasons why I can’t have a goat in my front lawn, here in the beautiful mega-city where I reside. Most would probably not only be able to recognize the reasons for this, practical and otherwise, but would agree that I shouldn’t have a goat on my lawn. But then why the hell should a person be able to keep something that EATS prey as large as goats in their basement?? The answer, is simple, and yet not so simple. Do the Giant reptiles actually have a place in modern herpetoculture? Do crocs? Do hots?? I think it’s fair to say that most who have them, probably shouldn’t... And most that should have them never get to share and teach, because in one way or another....they shouldn’t have them either.... So that brings us back to keeping what we damn well please. Should the average person have access to ‘Top of the line’ monstrous carnivores just because they have a hundred bucks to spend on a new pet? I often wonder about the hoards of eggs these animals are capable of producing in one squirt. Sure everyone can build a chestofdrawers and stuff it full of P. Regius, but how many Canadians can really devote half of a room to house one single animal? Obviously, enclosure size suffers to fit the needs of the keeper...But where are all the pictures of the adult animals? What happened to them after the first year of power feeding, the likes of which only parallel to ducks raised for frois grois? Sure, it got 10 feet in 1 year and is now pounding back 7 pound bunnies and piglets, but how many animals actually see their 5th birthday?? Or even 5 consecutive with the same owner? Rights and freedoms are one thing, but to say it is a right to keep whatever we damn well please is idiocy. To think that any government agency would spend time and money to accredit and evaluate potential keepers of large, venomous or otherwise dangerous reptiles is a thought process I can’t even begin to comprehend.... And I keep reptiles! While this whole 3 meter, 2 meter no hots no crocs law seems to be fairly arbitrary to some, it sure seems perfectly legitimate in the eyes of the lawmakers. Should every taxpaying citizen foot the bill to send bylaw enforcers to herpetology class so they can differentiate between which species of ``giant`` they are staring at, or should we go to walmart with a dollar and buy a roll of string for them to measure with? A world that has inspectors able to identify the hybrid, mutant bastardization of the original animal is the same world that I can genetically modify birds of prey into gryphons in a chicken coup in my backyard. It’s easy for us to say ``ban by species``, but that is an unreal expectation on enforcement. We know better than them what has the potential to reach 9.84 feet... We should know better what species will actually obtain that size... Why is it so hard to concede so little to keep so much? It shouldn’t be the ``all or nothing`` that is wanted by some on both sides of the bylaw fence. The way I look at it, ``most of everything`` is good enough for me. I am thankful that the area I live in had people working WITH the legislators as opposed to spouting rhetoric and waiting to take law makers to open court. What a stupid waste of time and money it would be to argue in open court ``Your honour, we the people have a right to keep and breed whatever we damn well please. These snakes are not only profitable, but they are broken genetically. Oh, and it doesn`t matter if that python can eat small ungulates, it is my right as a Canadian citizen to own and house them, even in residential areas. `` That said, I do believe in the right to legally keep and breed whatever I damn well please, but in the absence of common sense, ones rights are downgraded to privileges and even those are diminished significantly. Post scriptum: There are still keepers out there that are aware not everyone likes the creatures we choose to cohabitate with, and on occasion....they get elected... Right?? PPS: Sorry for the derailment, I`ve been on my best behaviour as of late and I don’t want to incur ``read-only`` privileges... I still like to be able to tell people what they`re doing is wrong!

Some great pictures of classic thamnophis. The odd godz have blessed them for sure. Could you imagine if they had as many aberrances as corn snakes? We could be sitting around debating about the "Canadian Market Value Of Genetically Broken Reptiles." A terrible fate that the Ask a Ball Python columnist knows all too much about. He probably envies little Suzie's cat. Afterall, when tea time is done, it gets to remove the ridiculous coloured getup. Happy Easter!!!! Post scriptum: Ventured a little too far north to see any live reptiles... But spring will be everywhere soon, Im sure of it.

Dear Rog, ( I can call you Rog, yes?), As a Big Time morph BP (stands for Ball Python, in case you're not up on the reptile lingo ), I have a prosthetic where my testicles used to be. They came in a fancy case, but it is really small (I'm a ball breeder, not owner). Do you think I can re-use it as an enclosure for a hatchling?? Times are tough for the "high end" animals, and I was hoping to save where I can. Signed, Eunuch from Yucatán Post Scriptum : As an aside, what is the going market value for CB coachwhips?? Is it by the sack, or the foot?? (...Full sacks make me nervous....)

It seems our little picnic has been visited by some arthropods... Inevitable though, there’s alot of value here in this thread... With so many personal attacks in one post, I can’t help but wonder why it affects you so, Mr. or Mrs. Beekeeper, that someone such as Mr. P. Voices his opinion as freely on the internet as you have. It would seem to me, that you have more to thank him for than to berate him. Afterall, he has been keeping and breeding P. Regius far longer than the “pioneers” you listed in you clever missive. Should you not show more respect to someone that has advanced legislation and captive propagation of a multitude of species? It’s laughable that you would even hint at trying to educate him, or anyone else on this thread about anything other than Bayerische Motoren Werke, if that is indeed where you’re true interest lies. I feel it would be counterproductive for me to try to illustrate how erroneous your post is, dealing with the language barrier issues you must face trying to communicate in English. I do appreciate how difficult it is though, I too would seem as poorly versed in the art of language should I try to compose a post longer than a few words, here on this French site outside our Lounge.... I welcome you, however, "Beekeeper" to stick around, pull up a chair in the back, sit quietly... and listen. Gina will be by shortly. You might just learn a thing or two about your newest hobby.... You never know, there may just be a couple experienced people here with a couple beautiful non-morphs that you might want to add to your collection, someday.... However, I feel it is pertinent to the current situation of backlash towards one individual, both public and behind the scenes, to point out that if it weren’t for people like the “puppet master”, there would be a void in the resource that many people (myself included) utilize and a chasm in the community as a whole. Not many people are capable of teetering on the line between bureaucrats, mainstream and the J&W, all in one residence. Between fieldwork (past and present), personal “projects” (past and present) and making sure that even people like you can enjoy coming into a hobby that is as fascinating as it is educational, we are all fortuitous that a bigger picture is always in the foreground. Why is it that the so called “purists” are the enemy in the hobby then? We morph haters are only looking beyond what short term investors deem valuable. Someone that has never even held a reptile coming into herptoculture is welcomed in with open arms by the “pioneers” of deleterious gene breeding, why? Because it’s good for business. Some one speaking openly about the damage this causes is branded as evil simply because it’s “bad for business”, to be silenced at all costs. There is a word for people that attempt to sequester knowledge, and they shouldn’t exist in the society we are led to believe we live in.... Morphs of no kind are the long term future in this hobby. They can’t be. The past 15 years of butchery will probably only elevate the need for closed collections that are unviolated by the lack of convictions that keepers let dominate their cash obsessed minds. The inability to find an unadulterated animal will eventually make wild-types the prize, and the mutants that spew forth from the cloacas once again will be fodder for the pickle jar, or fed to “perfectly healthy snakes”. I have to believe it, even if the wisdom of the keeper says otherwise. Post scriptum : PPS: Something for the bees..... PPPS: A photographer stealing internet pictures...... PPPPS : “Good day, PussCake!”

What a horrid creature that thing is! But have no fear, I have a cure.... For it, and the rest of you morph keeper's mistakes..... Sir Steve: Pic posted once before on an illfated thread...... Post Scriptum : No need to open the flood gates of mutant pictures.... They prefer the dark for a reason..... PPS : rancor_

Its great this thread has such interesting participants... With so much to share and so much of value... Although, truth be told, I secretly (...not so secretly ) criticize all of you rather harshly.... Except you, of course, Mr. Davidson. Thats right I wrote it. You cant unread it now...Morph keepers. The lot of ya...... There's no doubt more of you out there with untainted collections, but I dont trust what dirty little secrets you might be harboring in the back of your sock drawers... Especially YOU Mr. JSI. After perusing a perfect example of "modern captive Squamata enthusiast's" private communique with a prominent morph keeper (Thats right carmel thamnophis, you too! ),it makes me wonder which species is more adept for sweater box living.... My vote is starting to slide towards the two leggeds at this point..... But really, I keep garters... so I must be the lunitic....... Enough ranting for now... I want to play the "RealSnakes" (tm) game... I wish I could show some of the famed Urban Blandings but I think my irrational fear of turtles (caused by mutant ones......) will keep me from profiting on their popularity........... Worthlesser the First.... This shot was taken in all its poorly focused glory on April 27th 2008. It took 2 days of uncoordinated attempts to get as this was at a friend's cottage..... This particular animal taunted me, at waters edge a number of times that weekend. And just because its instyle and Im a conformist at heart.... Habitat Shot Post scriptum : What the hell is a "JustGarter" anyway?? Some new shitty morph / hybrid??? PPS : Mr. P, I know everybody cant read and comprehend all that you write, but do you think its because social insects rely on body language that even PICTURES arent understood? PPPS: I still dont like morphs.

Thank you Ms. Melanie. I always prefer WC PMs as opposed to LTC....And I always practice a strict catch and release so others can have the same enjoyment I did . Post Scriptum :

But I will save it...For now... But just to stir the "other snake" pot a little, here is a little project Ive been working on in my genetics facility. Nothing too serious... Just a : CANDOIA HEADED DRAGON!!!!!! Male: And I was blessed enough by the oddjobgods to get an unrelated female : Please note that they each guard they're own gemstone, otherwise they lock horns in an epic territorial dispute that spans more millennia than the Gaza strip..... Post scriptum: Wild caught in situ...............

Justin, Im truly sorry that I didnt get to see that happen. The look on "their" faces when they found out after all this time, and all that burning.... Someone MAKES a bleach to use for anuses!!!! Just another example of losers crossing the floor to be offended. But dont worry, I doubt we will get to see a post here from "them". No mods to cry to about words hurting their margins. Post scriptum : Don, its time to come clean about the photo manipulation... I mean, there is no way nature would make a snake in that shade of queer ...... PPS :

...But it can't be coloured in, that marker is perminant and is not supposed to run! Garters are a pleasure to keep. Heres some reposts of pictures used elsewhere... Avert your eyes lest some of you see them twice.... Female: Post Scriptum :Thamnophis .

Then I extend my merci's to them aussi! Its hard to terrorize this site like we did the last one when I havent got the foggiest clue whats going on outside these 2 English threads... But rest assured when I stop being so lazy (never) and brush of my second official language skills..... Ahh who am I kidding, how can I write a mean post with all these fancy smiley faces staring at me? Mr. Davidson, those little melanistic gardener snakes have earned their J&W stripes 10 times over. It is almost impossible to get a clear picture of them, hence the feeding pics. Preoccupied = less jumpy. But perhaps I should have placed a warning infront of those pictures. I assure the public though, that I treated those feeders with the utmost respect right up until the time I diced their frozen meat with scissors. Its the worms I always feel for though, they're alive still.... But seriously, I wasnt aware that there were so many people with reptiles that get antsy when viewing feeding pictures ( referring to another thread, if ya catch my drift ). Nothing natural to see here...These are all artificial conditions... Mr. Pool, I am quite envious of those pickeringii, too bad about the female. Did you have to bring them up from south of the 49th? Ive never seen them offered here, but thats the same with many Thamnophis species that seem to be floating here and there.....Very nice nonetheless! A few more, because Jon told me too........ For an attempt at a size reference... Does this one count??? Post Scriptum : Bowl fed snakes are great! PPS : They're not fat, they just have Oprahs bones...... PPPS : Have I offended anyone yet???