Bienvenue à la Révolution!

[Duff1 0]

JSI a écrit:

Duff a écrit:

Which makes me wonder if black-tails and unis are just color phases of the same animal.....................

Beautiful snake, I should get some photo's of me holding mine.
I agree with the Black Tail - Unicolour(Canadian Spelling ) issue. If you look at the variability of these snakes in the wild the notion of having different subspecies because of the colour of the tail doesn’t really make much sense. It would be like breaking down couperi because of throat colour or D.c.corais because of the amount of yellow or head colour.

Jeremy

P.S. I thought the “other” Canadian Site was a bit harsh with it’s post stripping but that US one (Kingwhatever.com) is even worse. A simple debate about feeding rates for Drymarchon where all I asked was for people to provide some credibility for their opinion got pulled. These “Internet Snake Keepers” don’t like if you question their opinion. Just smile and node.

The majority of sites go out of their way to prune back debate threads which is a shame. Some good information can be gleaned from "listening" to informed people logically debating a topic that they have experience with.

It's interesting that many forums will gladly let people dole out bad advice all day long but will aggresively edit anything deemed confrontational, regardless of how informative the contents of eh debate may be.

[Jon Davidson 0]

Duff a écrit:

The majority of sites go out of their way to prune back debate threads which is a shame. Some good information can be gleaned from "listening" to informed people logically debating a topic that they have experience with.

It's interesting that many forums will gladly let people dole out bad advice all day long but will aggresively edit anything deemed confrontational, regardless of how informative the contents of eh debate may be.

A good observation, Mr. Duff; and one in which many of us have had first hand experience with. Welcome to the site. You should like it here(in our VIP Lounge). Great photos of live specimens. Thanks for posting them. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[JSI 0]

Oh yes, we (D.Pogue, Jon Davidson, LD/50, and myself) are all very familiar with the unwarranted moderation of our discussion and opinions.

That's why we like it here; the VIP lounge is the real "Premier Canadian/Californian/World Reptile Forum"

Jeremy

P.S. I found Jon's recent debate on the anonymous contributors to be far more interesting than the topic that was in the original discussion. But as is always the case Jon was told to lay off because too many "anonymous" complaints had been made about him.

[D. Pogue 0]

First off......A big "Welcome to The Lounge" for newest members "Duff", "Superman81", and "Pro_bug_catcher" ! Thanks to everybody for their valuable additions to the "Revolution" Thread as well. It's just a little tiny corner of one very good site, but we like it here. Thanks especially to anyone who is generous enough to post their own photographs here. We all appreciate everyone's contributions, large or small.

Duff a écrit:

It's interesting that many forums will gladly let people dole out bad advice all day long but will aggressively edit anything deemed confrontational, regardless of how informative the contents of the debate may be.

Well, Duff, you really touched a nerve with that statement. Sadly, far too many people get away with regularly posting blatantly incorrect or misleading "information" all over many reptile forums, and apparently it's considered "bad form" to challenge these "experts"............the excuse from the folks who run some sites usually is, "That's his/her opinion" when in fact "opinion" really has nothing to do with it. So-called "moderators" on these familiar sites can't seem to fathom the idea that confrontation in and of itself is not always necessarily a bad thing. If someone makes a ludicrous statement like, "All crocodilians have tiny brains and they cannot hear a thing!" or publicly endorses the regular prophylactic use of dangerous neurotoxins in reptile husbandry (just a couple of examples from another site), should that be allowed to go unchallenged? In most cases I have seen, the answer I get is a resounding "yes". All apparently in the name of just making "nice" all of the time. I feel that as long as the debate is kept clean, and posters stick to debating and attacking another viewpoint without resorting to profanity, threats, or personal insults, everything should be allowed to stand. As Mr. Davidson has so often said, let the membership decide for themselves who is credible..............and who is not. I find that, given the opportunity, most people who post "information" that is not borne out of direct, first-hand experience are quicky revealed to be the frauds they truly are. Please note that simply using "Google" regularly does not equate with conducting "research"...............As an aside, isn't the word "research" the most devalued, abused word in any language these days? If I could, I would nominate the word "facility" as a close runner-up for the "Most Meaningless Word" Award........... .

Sometimes rules are made to be bent, I think. For instance, JSI posted some tropical lizard photos here a while back, even though the header says "Colubridés et Autres Serpents". Funny, no-one censured (or censored) him for that "confrontational behaviour". In the spirit of general contempt for arbitrary rules, I'd like to post these invertibrate pics and dedicate them to "Pro_bug_catcher" who invoked the name of Persephone earlier. Nothing too exotic here, just a few shots of some common bugs as we await the re-return of Spring 2009 (it's back for good in these parts as of tomorrow, and the Garters will be out in numbers )...............

An Argiope spider.







An unidetified wasp.




There's a "walking stick" in there somewhere.......




An exotic Yucatan caterpillar.




A mantis, found last summer while we were hiking in Sistrurus territory.




That's it for the bugs. I hope that rule-bending wasn't too dangerous or confrontational.

Regards,
D
ps - The cryptic green on that mantis reminds me of a certain cryptically-coloured snake that is sometimes encountered in Québec and Ontario and several other parts of Canada. Up next: "Green Is The Colour".


pps -

[Manu-superiorgeckos 0]

To add to your post Mr. Pogue...Couple of last seasons Herping picts!



















P.S: oh ya..a snake!

[Duff1 0]

Some more of our Rhamphiophis:




...and some of the most important woman in my life (next to my wife, daughter and mother):




Sadly my photo skills rarely do my subjects much justice.

[Pro_bug_catcher 0]

Thank you for the dedicated pictures Mr. Pogue. I've never seen a wild phasmids in Canada, I know there are some at the Mount Royal Cemetery but I've never been there... A trip for this summer maybe.
Nice caterpillars... here's a Milkweed Tussock Moth catrepillar (Euchaetes egle) to keep up with the hairy kind :


Here are some of the very few snake pictures I have, a nice little Eastern Milk Snake (Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum) :








Next time no snake pictures

[Jon Davidson 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

'In the spirit of general contempt for arbitrary rules',

Awh... Mr. Pogue! Nice to see you back again, Sir. Great photo-essay and commentary, as always( Gina!!?, Could you and friends please go and prepare the always reserved best table in the house for Mr. Pogue!). Sincerely, Jon Davidson . Writer's edit: for spelling.

[Jon Davidson 0]

Wow! Everyone, Great posts and photos! Just like back in the 'old days' in the J&W Thread. Great to see. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Spankenstyne 0]

I hate to keep saying it but I feel rude not mentioning: nice photos people! Well said Jon I 100% agree.
Duff, with the Rhamphiophis how do you find their behaviour? In my short interactions with them I found them very... bird-like would be the best way I can describe. Interesting snakes for sure.

I'll try and convince K & D to start posting, to offer some better first hand experience. I'm sure a little persuasion from a misreable vieille personne would likely be quite effective

[Duff1 0]

Spankenstyne a écrit:

I hate to keep saying it but I feel rude not mentioning: nice photos people! Well said Jon I 100% agree.
Duff, with the Rhamphiophis how do you find their behaviour? In my short interactions with them I found them very... bird-like would be the best way I can describe. Interesting snakes for sure.

I'll try and convince K & D to start posting, to offer some better first hand experience. I'm sure a little persuasion from a misreable vieille personne would likely be quite effective

Rhamphiophis seem to be afflicted with a reptilian case of OCD. This results in them darting their heads in and out, side to side when the are investigating things - bobbing their heads about. You're right - it is very bird-like.

A lot of species have been dumped into the colubrid family and taxonomists appear to be re-evaluating the classification of several species - rhamphiophis being one of them. Fry, for example, thinks that they are more closely related to elapids - citing their relatively complex venom, massive venom glands and some behavioral patterns.

Rhamphiophis will, more often than not, pick prey items up and move away with them in their mouths, much like black mambas (or the family dog) will do when disturbed.

I keep my male in a 60"x30"x24" enclosure atop a 6" deep breeding drawer filled with aspen. When the lights go on with the timer, he will repeatedly pop up and down out of the access hole checking out the main part of his cage. If any new items are put in his enclosure, he will check them out with repeated head bob and feints. They will use elevated vantage points, when available, to assess their surroundings.

Rhamphiophis are very active animals, with quick metabolisms. I've had them digest a full meal in less than 30 hours.

They are fairly high-strung and cautious - repeatedly investigating new or unfamiliar things with those bird-like feints and darts until they become acclimated to the object/item.

My personal opinion is that drys display more traits indicative of actual "intelligence" than rhamphiophis do. That being said, beaked snakes are very interactive with their environments.

[JSI 0]

Thanks for sharing the observation on Rhamphiophis, very interesting stuff.

I agree with the Drymarchon intelligence, I don't have much experience with them but they seem to exhibit a broad range of "thinking" and "moods".

Jeremy


P.S. Too whom it may concern, I can play too I know your "Team" is checking this thread daily.

[D. Pogue 0]

With great pride, I announce that this Repticlic Thread will now be carrying one of my personal favourites (the celebrated column named in the post title) on a regular basis. In his weekly writings, the Ghost Of Roger Conant will, in his own inimitable style, answer questions on topics of interest to a wide variety of Reptile Hobbyists.

For some reason, this self-same column was summarily deleted from another Vebsyte. Why, I can't determine. Nonetheless, here it is, in all of its informative glory ........

Regards,
D.

Ask The Ghost Of Roger Conant


Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

I already have a facility, a company name, a website, and a big collection of breeding pairs of snakes. I was hoping that you could help me with my logo. I was thinking maybe a cute cartoon of two Ball Pythons, one a boy-snake and one a girl-snake, entwined and kissing, with my company name in the background. I also wonder what you think I should charge for my new promotional t-shirts. Is $30.00 too much? Thanks in advance.
-- Stumped in Saskatoon

Dear Stumped:

There are many reptiles and amphibians in the Pine Barrens, among them the secretive scarlet snake, Cemophora coccinea, the corn snake, Elaphe guttata, and the pine snake, Pituophis m. melanoleucus. Other species, such as the hognose snake, Heterodon platirhinos, and the timber rattlesnake, Crotalus horridus, occur both in the Barrens and outside them. How extraordinarily fortunate I was to to reside in that unique part of America while so much of it was in pristine condition.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

I heard recently that there was something called "Taxonomy", and supposedly it has to do with naming living things and science 'n' stuff. That seems way too complicated and brainy, so now my friends and I just make up our own names for our reptiles. Most of the names are based on food items or marketable images that we think describe the reptile for sale. Pretty clever, huh? What do you think of our idea?
-- Innovative in Indiana

Dear Innovative:

Toward the east, water snakes enter the desert in the Rio Grande and Pecos River drainage, as well as the Rio Salado - Rio Sabinas system in Coahuila. There they are in contact with the main portions of the ranges of their species, or were until very recently. With my wealth of collected material I was able, in 1963, to describe the Rio Auguanaval water snake as a new sub-species, which I called Natrix (= Nerodia) erythrogaster alta, a name I selected because of the high altitude at which the taxa occurred.


Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

I have just set up a Line Of Credit at my local bank. Thanks to a really nice Loans Officer, I now have access to $35,000.00 in funds. Do you think I would be better off buying a small number of rare morphs, breeding them, and holding on to most of the offspring and then offering them in a few years as a "limited release", or should I invest in a large number of comparitively inexpensive morphs and start selling right away? I look forward to reading your reply.
-- Anxious in Ancaster

Dear Anxious:

It was 1984. The ride into Bombay was extremely depressing. We passed through a seemingly endless stream of human misery. Thousands of people had only old woven mats or cardboard boxes for shelter. Their clothing consisted of rags, and everyone seemed emaciated. Some looked like walking skeletons. There were no sanitary facilities. A long, shallow ditch paralleling the highway was the only latrine, and it was being used by people of all ages and both sexes, with no effort to seek privacy. The stench was overwhelming, especially in the hot, very humid atmosphere. A human corpse was lying on the road, and someone had spread a filthy sari over it.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

I was wondering if you could recommend a good source for wholesale plastic tubs? I need several hundred, and I need them right away. I also need your advice on how to dispose of the lids, because I won't be requiring them. I am so excited about my "future projects", too. Herpetology is so awesome!
--Giddy in Gibbstown

Dear Giddy:

An offshoot of the popularity of captive herps is the veritable avalanche of popular, well-illustrated books, pamphlets, and articles on individual species, genera, and popular groups such as geckos. Most are instructive and useful, but some are so poorly written or rushed into print that they qualify as examples of what my old friend Howard K. Gloyd called literary diarrhea.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

Yesterday I was talking to some guy who claims to enjoy observing and "photographing" reptiles and amphibians in the "wild". Most of the reptiles he said he finds, I've never even heard of. I'm pretty sure this guy's just making all that stuff up, because he also told me none of the reptiles he "photographs" are worth any money, LOL. I told him, "Reptiles don't come from the park, buddy! They come from a Pet Store, or The Internet!". I really shut him up, didn't I? I'll bet you would have really told him something too!
--Doubtful in Dutton

Dear Doubtful:

Almost like magic, small frogs appeared all over the road. We caught a few to check on what species they were, and then we started hunting snakes in earnest. We found a baby boa, and then an Imantodes, an extraordinarily attenuated snake with a body so long and slender. A cat-eyed snake, a species equipped with fangs in the rear of its mouth, was eating a frog right on the road. When at first we saw it we thought its head had been crushed by a passing vehicle, because its mouth was stretched so wide in the process of swallowing that it looked flat and mis-shapen. That's how it was, while travelling in the wilds of Mexico long ago.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

Last year I bought a group of newly-hatched Ball Pythons. I am hoping to breed them starting this December, but I wanted your opinion on something. Should I breed the homozygous snakes to each other to maximize the offsprings' overall value, or should I go the "het to homozygous" route to maximize genetic diversity? I need your advice as soon as possible, because I have to pay off my investment, and these snakes are almost two years old now. They're not getting any younger, if you get my drift.
-- Impatient in Ingelwood

Dear Impatient:

The afternoon was cool and cloudy, and ribbon and water snakes were out and not concealed to avoid the heat as they would have been if the hot sun had been shining. I saw six couchii and succeeded in catching three. Five were resting in branches over the flume, which was not only fast running but also rather deep, almost up to the top of my hip boots. By stalking and then rushing, I caught two of the snakes along the flume, but, in getting the second, I lost my footing on the slippery bottom, went down, and got soaked to the skin.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

I have a Ball Python that I'm ready to breed. She currently weighs 576 grams. Should I introduce her to the male right now, or hold off and wait a couple of weeks so she can gain weight from her next meal? Please help.
-- Stressed In T/O

Dear "Stressed":

The hilltop was relatively flat and sparsely covered with second-growth pine, but there were several stone piles through which we began to search. Under a flattish rock I found a real prize, a twin-spotted rattlesnake, Crotalus pricei, a rather small snake marked with pairs of dark spots along its back. The same hilltop yielded a garter snake, Thamnophis cyrtopsis cyrtopsis, a fairly young mountain skink, Eumeces callicephalus, and three treefrogs, Hyla eximinia. Later, on our way back to the Big Bend National Park, we guided a fairly large western diamondback, Crotalus atrox, into a large clump of cactus well off the highway.

Dear Ghost Of Roger Conant:

i'm wondering when i breed my 88% djj to my djj sibling, would the jags that result still be considered 93% djj even though the sib is not from diamond x jungle breeding? If not what would they be? thanks
-- Meddling in Minnesota

Dear "Meddling":

Leonhard Stejneger's contributions to the scientific community were many, but I didn't fully appreciate his meticulous thoroughness until I made frequent use of his "Herpetology of Japan" during the 1980s while I was working on the Gloyd-Conant monograph on the genus Agkistrodon and its allies. Karl P. Schmidt had a phenomenal knowledge of the herpetological literature on a world-wide basis. Edward H. Taylor was a superb field man who had an uncanny knack for finding reptiles and amphibians. Archie Carr had a brilliant mind, and he was one of the great herpetologists of the twentieth century.....All of these greats of herpetology are gone now, as am I. Only our research remains, in the form of books, papers, journals, and the memories of those remaining who still care about such things.


The Ghost Of Roger Conant is a syndicated advice columnist whose weekly column, "Ask the Ghost Of Roger Conant" is featured in more than 250 newspapers nationwide.

[Duff1 0]

Dear Ghost of Roger Conant:

I have been feeding my mussurana a steady diet of cinnamon pastel python regius and noticed that he is getting quite portly. Someone on another forum who initially thought that Boiruna Maculata was an old King Crimson album, told me that cinnamon pastel balls are way too high in empty carbs. Can you recommend a less calorie laden (and cheaper) morph to feed to my chubby snake?

Thanks in advance!

-- Worried in Walnut Creek

[stevie 0]

Hello Mr.Duff
I'm not the Ghost of Mr.Roger Conant,but i think i can help you out with your troubles you seem to be having lately feeding your mussurana.One day while feeding some ducks at a park i met a wise old man that shared some information of him seeing some worthless garters out in the fields.He told me where they can be located,so off i went.

Wise old man and me;















P.S I hope this can help you out.Cheers Frenchie the Roughneck all the way from Toronto,Canada

[rancor_ 0]

Dear Rog, ( I can call you Rog, yes?),

As a Big Time morph BP (stands for Ball Python, in case you're not up on the reptile lingo ), I have a prosthetic where my testicles used to be.
They came in a fancy case, but it is really small (I'm a ball breeder, not owner). Do you think I can re-use it as an enclosure for a hatchling?? Times are tough for the "high end" animals, and I was hoping to save where I can.

Signed,
Eunuch from Yucatán

Post Scriptum : As an aside, what is the going market value for CB coachwhips?? Is it by the sack, or the foot?? (...Full sacks make me nervous....)

[D. Pogue 0]

Roger Waters, April 29th, 1970, Fillmore West, San Francisco, California a écrit:

We're going to do two things cunningly run together now. The first of which is a song called "Green Is The Colour" which is about being on Ibiza, and the second is an instrumental which is from our last album "Ummagumma", which is called "Careful With That Axe, Eugene"........

Thanks for the intro, Rog..........hmmmmmmmm......another legendary "Roger"...........What are we to make of all this, then?

I promised some "green" a while back, didn't I? Far be it from me to disappoint. Just like the old Floyd sequence, the delicate pretty stuff will be followed up with some blood-curdling screams. Make of that what you will...........tomorrow.........perhaps...........

In the meantime, as you all ponder the cryptic stuff, here are some all new images of a couple of real live snakes behaving as they will in their Natural Surroundings..........

Smooth Green Snake, Liochlorophis vernalis, in all its cryptic glory.......







A little less cryptic......for just a minute or so........






















That's it for the "green".....for a while anyways........now here's some equally cryptic brown...........Storeria dekayi, "in situ"......




"Snakes: Hidden Where You Find Them"




Regards,
DP

ps - Up next: "The Bloodbath"........or maybe simply another Advice Column..........who knows?

pps - For "Duff"........

ppps - "Cork Bark"

[JSI 0]

The Liochlorophis vernalis is spectacular, such amazing fauna in our own backyard.

Jeremy

P.S. I'm very happy to see the "Ask the Ghost of Roger Conant" has been reborn. It was a great thread in the past.

[LD/50 0]

Wow! Great to see that "Roger Conant" column again, I thought it had been killed forever .

I guess its gentle humour like that that gets people kicked out of the party "some places" LOL.

I'm told that somewhere else on the interwebs a Big Time Professional Breeder has been slagging coachwhips
because they're not "worth" as much as some kind of aberrant Ball Python . That kind of statement qualifies

the poster quite well, doesn't it? Maybe Frank Zappa said it best.......



A wise man once wrote on a very jumpy and somewhat worthless thread long, long ago that there's
nothing wrong with making money, but if that's all you're about then we have a word for what you are .


steven
PS Some people consider these greedy puppy mill style mutant snake breeders
to be "experts" on reptiles in general and snakes specifically, it's too
bad that there isn't a REAL expert like the late Roger Conant
writing an internet advice column to set things straight.
That would be just what the doctor ordered .

[JSI 0]

Who would slag on Coachwhips?
People that can't be bothered to figure out how to care for them that’s who. The old, if it won't live in a bin with flexwatt I'm not interested attitude.
Then the rumors start about how nasty and difficult they are to keep. It's easier to say something is hard to keep and "I" the expert am advising you not to waste your time in attempting to care for it rather than say "I" couldn't figure it out and failed trying.

Jeremy

[D. Pogue 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

I'm told that somewhere else on the interwebs a Big Time Professional Breeder has been slagging coachwhips
because they're not "worth" as much as some kind of aberrant Ball Python .

A Tame Pink Coachwhip a écrit:

"Who is slagging me?? I just woke up after three months of much-deserved sleep, and already some Millionnaire Bully Investor starts mocking me??? It's just so silly........"

LD/50 a écrit:

It's too bad that there isn't a REAL expert like the late Roger Conant writing an internet advice column to set things straight. That would be just what the doctor ordered .

Oh, but there is an Advice Column such as you desribe, Steven. It's called "Ask An Expert Snake Breeder", and it's coming up right here on this very Repticlic Thread. It will be part of my latest effort to re-build some metaphorical bridges in the Reptile Community, and I hope it will make me lots of new Big Time Professional Breeder friends in the process .

Regards,
D

[Duff1 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

I guess its gentle humour like that that gets people kicked out of the party "some places" LOL.

Bad advice good.........
Gentle humor bad..........

LD/50 a écrit:

I'm told that somewhere else on the interwebs a Big Time Professional Breeder has been slagging coachwhips ecause they're not "worth" as much as some kind of aberrant Ball Python .

Take comfort in the fact that today's $10K morph will be worth a fraction of it's value a year from now.

I fondly remember those carefree and innocent days when a spider ball python was considered an "investment". Well, sadly that investment is worth less today than a Pituophis lineaticollis - a clearly inferior and *gasp* naturally occuring animal that isn't prone to grand mal seizures.

[JSI 0]

The Coachwhips are awake?
Still have not seen them in all their pink glory.

So the "Ask An Expert Snake Breeder" is going to go public? That is something I would love to see. Should be interesting to see what kind of response that gets from the people that "read" this thread anonymously.

Duff a écrit:

Bad advice good.........
Gentle humor bad..........

They really should do something about that. Remove the conflict, fine but clean up the bad advice too. That's what makes people frustrated and irritable.

Jeremy

[Duff1 0]

JSI a écrit:

The Coachwhips are awake?
Still have not seen them in all their pink glory.

So the "Ask An Expert Snake Breeder" is going to go public? That is something I would love to see. Should be interesting to see what kind of response that gets from the people that "read" this thread anonymously.

Duff a écrit:

Bad advice good.........
Gentle humor bad..........

They really should do something about that. Remove the conflict, fine but clean up the bad advice too. That's what makes people frustrated and irritable.

Jeremy

When you look at some of these forums as purposefully contrived advertisements for paying vendors/breeders, you see why they care little about bad advice and more about cyber-arguments.

The claimed emphasis is on providing "advice" in a "welcoming" and "open" atmosphere. It's all about "helping" people new to the hobby. The stress is firmly placed on introducing and pimping new morphs.

However, is it really helpful to point some kid with a part-time job at Best Buy towards purchasing a $250 cage and a $120 thermostat all to house a $500.00 inbred snake with neurological and skeletal defects?

Or is it more helpful to provide a counterpoint to the conventional wisdom with real experience?

You and I know the answer - and frankly so do the moderators of the "other" sites. The problem is that their interests lie heavily into generating business for their paid advertisers.

The choice to allow bad advice in the name of not scaring away potential customers is a fully conscious one. The choice to rid these forums of people who call them on this crap is an equally deliberate one.

[Nir 0]

I love those L. vernalis shots Don! Never photographed one myself... It's like my nemesis, everytime I'm in prime habitat they seem to vanish... hehe

I agree with Duff that the moderation is all about marketing. If you want to make sales and keep the price tag on those super mega orange Apidae, you must control what information gets out.

Anyway, I know what I like and nobody's gonna tell me what to keep hehe.

Here is a J&WW (for way worthless) animal that I really like.... I've never cheated in the VIP lounge so here it goes.

[RegiusCo 0]

Hey Don Pogue, any pics of those flashy tangerine albino hondurensis you had a few years ago, those where nice, I just didn't have the coins at the time.

[D. Pogue 0]

As a matter of fact, I do have a few stray images of some amelanistic L. t. hondurensis still lying around. Thanks for asking, Mr. or Mrs. "EyeCu". I'm trying not to be sarcastic, really.......I'd be happy to address you respectfully by your real name, but you've chosen to remain anonymous here, and, I suspect, elsewhere as well. The stunningly asinine "avatar" and unsigned post say it all, don't they? Didn't we just go through this idiotic excercise with the equally-anonymous "beekeeper"?? Of course, I could be mistaken. This is "The Internet", after all. I myself have chosen not to hide behind the veil of anonymity because I have no trouble backing up any position I may take here with "facts" and "science" and "direct personal experience" and even an "informed opinion". Not everyone is willing or able do this, I realize.

I'd really prefer not to soil this Thread too much, but here are a few shots, as requested......








One of the few "good" clutches from this doomed "project"......not surprisingly, the sire was a wild-caught male.



Here's that beautiful wild-caught, "unpolluted" male L. t. hondurensis to help wash away the putrid memories of those genetically defective snakes........poor things.......



Sometime around 1997/98, I received a pair of amelanistic Honduran Milksnakes. At the time, there were few if any other amelanistic Hondurans in Canada. The young pair I got came originally from the Louis Porras collection. Perhaps some of you are familiar with Mr. Porras's name. I suspect he needs no introduction from the likes of me. I recall at the time reading Louie's article on the amelanistics in "Vivarium" magazine. He had owned one of the first wild-caught examples, but he had subsequently decided to divest himself of the majority of his live collection in order to pursue other ventures. The full story is a long and rather dull one, but suffice it to say that there was (and is) a "fertility problem" with many of these naturally-occurring spontaneous mutations, and this one was no exception. This is another example of how Natural Selection favours any organism that isn't genetically compromised. You don't survive long as a group if your fertility rate is poor. During the late 1990s and early 2000s I hatched out many dozens of "normal" Honduran Milksnakes of various natural phases, but had very little success with producing amelanistics. I did hatch out a couple here and there, though. I have since spoken to a number of respected breeders who report similar disappointing results with amelanistic Hondurans. Basically, these things were pretty little bits of living garbage.

I'd like to go on record here and say that I have never stated here or anywhere else that all so-called "morphs" are inherently evil or without study value. I have owned or photographed and will continue to own and photograph a small number of interesting naturally-occurring aberrancies. They are, however, mere living curiosities for me. My problem with the current state of the Reptile Hobby is that snakes I feel should be treated as nothing more than curious freaks of nature have become an obsesssion for the overwhelming majority of today's deformity-worshipping breeders/keepers. "Normal" i.e. "Natural" i.e. "unpolluted" has become codified language for "entry-level" or "worthless", and most production-line snake breeders eschew anything resembling Nature in favour of churning out mutant "investments" made from combining numerous deleterious traits, all for fun and profit.

It's a real "Fuck You" to Natural Selection, isn't it?

EyeCu a écrit:

I just didn't have the coins at the time.

Imagine that. In a Hobby so top-heavy with bottom-feeders who can barely shit the rent every month, but who prattle on and on about $5,000.00 and $10,000.00 designer snakes..............who could imagine someone with a cash-flow problem??? Unbelievable. Thanks for your rather obvious attempt at embarrassing me here. I'm not the one who should be embarrassed, though.

Regards,
D

ps - Attention All Investors: "Your Gold Teeth are showing"
pps - "Flashy"

[cowboy xav 0]

this milk is beautiful! much more than hypo, anery or other phase... a real beauty!

[Duff1 0]

I'm going to come out of the closet..........

..........so to speak. I, I, er, I , um currently own a few color morphs of my own.

On the preceding pages, I posted pictures of my pseudelaphe flavirufa. I noticed that all of you were polite enough to not scream "Anery" at the top of your lungs and run screaming from the building.

I also own a ball python morph - a black pastel to be exact....and there's a good reason for it.

My children love the snakes, but get frustrated not being able to hold a 6' long drymarchon, or one of my opistoglyphs. The aspidites can be a bit intimidating to a smaller child, and the antaresia can be a bit nippy.

The subocellatus are also temperamental buggers and the red ackies have the sense to hide when they hear the pitter patter of little feet.

So about a year and a half ago, I built a cage for an acquaintance of mine who breeds, among other things, ball python morphs. I built the cage for free but he insisted on paying me. Having heard my kids bitch about how they don't have a snake of their own - he paid me with a leftover black pastel male. It doesn't reside in the snake house in our back yard, it hangs with my son in his room.

Now I could take the coward's way out and claim that it's not my snake - but truth be told, I feed it, clean it's cage, etc. My son and daughter hold him from time to time, and my daughter reads to him. But facts are facts - I own him.

There. That feels alot better. I freely own up to the fact that I own one ball python morph - just don't make me post any pictures of him here.

[JSI 0]

I'd give up a bag of Pieds for a Coachwhip, that's for damn sure. Coachwhips have street cred for the goldtooth snake keepers.

Jeremy

[LD/50 0]

Duff a écrit:

Duff also a écrit:

Bad advice good.........
Gentle humor bad..........

The choice to allow bad advice in the name of not scaring away potential customers is a fully conscious one. The choice to rid these forums of people who call them on this crap is an equally deliberate one.

Very well said. As a person who is really interested in learning more about snakes in particular, but all reptiles in general, I get tired of reading endless junk about "market value" and "where to buy stuff", but thats what its all about some places. I want to read about real reptiles, not the current prices of man made mutants. If you dare to question or heaven forbid "mock" one of the "experts" who spend all day on those sites promoting their tacky "businesses", you get threatened with a "permanent ban" (me) or maybe you have your password changed without your knowledge.......or maybe you get put into a "can't post, just read" category because your views are considered too dangerous, or in my case "funny" LOL . I myself count the least in the mix because I am not intersted in "buying" loads of snakes, or even breeding them myself. I just like to learn more about the reptiles I love.

Apparently no one is permitted to say anything about anything, anywhere on the internet, without first agreeing to agree all the time with the shifty characters who profit from the reptile equivalent of Multi Level Marketing.

I bet if we all moved to Japan and started posting our comments on a Japanese site (in Japanese, too!)"someone" would still follow us there to try and control the message or the viewpoint. Whats so dangerous about appreciating nature and disliking the morph mania that some of us think is ruining the hobby?

I guess everybody's entitled to an opinion until it challenges the satus quo.

steven
PS "asinine avatar"
PPS "Hey, Morph-Man!! Lookin' good with those gold teeth, Dude er, I mean "Bro"

[Duff1 0]

LD/50 a écrit:

Duff a écrit:

Duff also a écrit:

Bad advice good.........
Gentle humor bad..........

The choice to allow bad advice in the name of not scaring away potential customers is a fully conscious one. The choice to rid these forums of people who call them on this crap is an equally deliberate one.

Very well said. As a person who is really interested in learning more about snakes in particular, but all reptiles in general, I get tired of reading endless junk about "market value" and "where to buy stuff", but thats what its all about some places. I want to read about real reptiles, not the current prices of man made mutants. If you dare to question or heaven forbid "mock" one of the "experts" who spend all day on those sites promoting their tacky "businesses", you get threatened with a "permanent ban" (me) or maybe you have your password changed without your knowledge.......or maybe you get put into a "can't post, just read" category because your views are considered too dangerous, or in my case "funny" LOL . I myself count the least in the mix because I am not intersted in "buying" loads of snakes, or even breeding them myself. I just like to learn more about the reptiles I love.

Apparently no one is permitted to say anything about anything, anywhere on the internet, without first agreeing to agree all the time with the shifty characters who profit from the reptile equivalent of Multi Level Marketing.

I bet if we all moved to Japan and started posting our comments on a Japanese site (in Japanese, too!)"someone" would still follow us there to try and control the message or the viewpoint. Whats so dangerous about appreciating nature and disliking the morph mania that some of us think is ruining the hobby?

I guess everybody's entitled to an opinion until it challenges the satus quo.

steven
PS "asinine avatar"
PPS "Hey, Morph-Man!! Lookin' good with those gold teeth, Dude er, I mean "Bro"

I've never had a password changed, but I have had the "v-chip" slapped on me (all posts held until reviewed by a Moderator) and I've been the target of Moderators locking threads in which I was questioning the common "dogma" of a site.

There is one forum in particular, where a Moderator very openly threw down with me on an issue he should have been very knowledgeable on, but sadly, was not. While I was trying my best to politely debate his points, he kept getting in little jabs and cheap shots.

His infantile behavior didn't bother me - I've come to expect it from people who close their minds to learning and expanding horizons - be it life or herps. After all, no one is harder to reach than someone who is so convinced he's right that he cannot tolerate the possibility he may be wrong.

What bothered me more is that it was an issue that he should have been behind, an issue where he and I should have been on the same page. Unfortunately, having people educated on this issue may have hurt his business - and damned if he was going to allow that.

I have been in this hobby for the greater part of twenty five years and there is so much I don't know. I always appreciate an alternative outlook or hearing about a successful approach to something that differs from mine. Having these forums sponsored by mass-producing snake mills and moderated by fan-boys of said mills is akin to having Anheuser-Busch sponsor a sobriety clinic with Liza Minelli, Ted Kennedy, Dean Martin and Hunter S. Thompson as the counselors.

[Spankenstyne 0]

Well dealing with some stones of the kidney variety so I'm temorarily outta smart assedness .. I assure you it is only temporary... Once the meds wear off.....
Everything I wanted to address while reading seems to have been tackled already. Also another random anonymous, weak attempt at embarassment yet again deflected right back and likely will go unresponded to...again...

So I guess all that's left is to share my newest Sterile-ite serpent, in-situ




He's delightfully worthless and cranky looking


Chris

[cowboy xav 0]

your P.M.deserticola is amazing am I all right on the species

[Nir 0]

Actually reptileX, that is the nominate sub species. And a fine looking specimen at that!!

Great looking Northern Pine there Mr. Sprakenstyne.

Nick

[D. Pogue 0]

Announcer: This "Duff" kid is one to watch, folks. It's late in Spring Training and this new guy's still batting .1000 in only 11 spectacular at-bats for the hometown Natural Selectors. It's the bottom of the ninth, and the Selectors have the bases loaded with two outs. The pitcher for the Sleazy Pet-Trade Cabal is a crafty mass-marketer who just signed a 1-year, $30,000,000.00 deal and he comes to the mound with a slippery change-up and a sneaky curveball in his bag of tricks......let's see what happens, folks........The pitcher winds up......here it comes........

CRACK!!!!

Duff a écrit:

Having these forums sponsored by mass-producing snake mills and moderated by fan-boys of said mills is akin to having Anheuser-Busch sponsor a sobriety clinic with Liza Minelli, Ted Kennedy, Dean Martin and Hunter S. Thompson as the counselors.

Announcer: Holy Cow, folks!! The kid really stepped into that one......it's up........up........up......It's OUTTA HERE!!!! That ball is up over the fifth-deck bleachers and into the lake!!! This announcer hasn't seen a Grand Slam like this one since Joe Carter smoked the Phillies back in '92!!!! The crowd is going wild!!!!!

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

As promised earlier, I am introducing another new "advice column" in an effort to help educate all of us in the Reptile Hobby. We can all use good, helpful information from time to time, and I'm pleased to be able to run this column as a public service here on Repticlic. It works pretty much the same as any other advice column.........each week, readers submit their questions, and An Expert Snake Breeder answers them. Enjoy.

Regards,
D

________________________

Ask An Expert Snake-Breeder
________________________

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder: I have a nice little group of Eastern Garter Snakes. I have 2 adult males and 3 adult females, and until recently I've been keeping them separately. I hibernated them all for 60 days this past winter, and now that I have warmed them up, I was wondering, can I keep them all together in the same aquarium? I really enjoy watching them cruise around and interact with one another, and I was thinking of putting them into a nice big 100-gallon tank that's never been used. I was also hoping to successfully breed them this year. What do you think?
Signed, "Thamnophis Fan"

Dear "Fan": First off, let me say that "aquariums" are for "fish", not snakes. Snakes belong in plastic tubs or drawers. Listen to what I say, because I am an expert in this industry. Secondly: Don't waste your time with Garter Snakes. You'll never be taken seriously as a breeder until you learn to concentrate on rare, beautiful morphs of either Boas or Pythons, and you need to know that sitting around "watching" your snakes is a waste of time. I can help you, though. Please contact me at my e-mail address expert_breeder@hotmail.com so that I can provide you with a detailed list of the many Captive Bred snakes I currently have for sale.

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder: I was recently at a "Reptile Expo" in my hometown for the first time ever. As a kid, I used to love catching and observing wild snakes at my uncle's farm. I noticed that the "expo" snakes didn't look much like the ones I remembered from years ago. The wild snakes I used to see had colour, sometimes "bright", sometimes "cryptic", but the ones at the expo were mostly white, light pink, or a very washed-out yellow/brown, and they somehow had an overall "un-natural" appearance to me, anyways. All of the dealers told me this difference was because the "expo" snakes are "morphs" bred in captivity, and that this fact makes them much, much better than those snakes from Uncle Bob's farm. What do you think?
Signed, "Expo Newbie"

Dear "Newbie": Of course "Captive Bred" reptiles are ALWAYS better! I can't even believe anyone would ask that kind of question. The problem with "wild" reptiles is that they are ALL full of parasites, and ALL of them are dying. I'm surprised that there are any snakes left in the wild, because, as I mentioned, they are ALL diseased and dying. Listen to what I say, because I am an expert in this industry. You should always pay for your snakes, and they should always be Captive Bred! Don't buy anything though without first checking my huge list of investment quality offspring. I have competitive pricing, and I offer the very best customer service. Buy from me and you won't be sorry!

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder: I have a real dilemma on my hands. I have a number of clutches of snake eggs that are around half-way through development, but I will be moving from my house into an apartment several miles away in less than a week. My question is, can I move the eggs without harming them? I don't know if this makes any difference, but I am currently driving a six year old Jeep Wrangler. Please help me with any advice you may have.
Signed: "Recently Downsized"

Dear "Downsized": You definitely CAN'T move those eggs without killing them. No way. Even if you were driving a brand new BMW 7-Series, you shouldn't move them, but at least if you were behind the wheel of a fine German or Japanese luxury vehicle, your eggs might, and I stress "might" stand a chance. Don't even think about putting them in that Jeep. All cars built in North America are garbage. I wouldn't even get into a North American-built car or truck myself, let alone risk valuable eggs that way. Do whatever you like, though. If your eggs don't make it, you can check my extensive list of currently available snakes for sale, and don't forget to have a look at my "future projects" section too. As a reputable professional breeder, I am always on the cutting edge of this industry's latest trends. You can depend on me to offer fair prices and the best customer service in the business!

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder: I am looking to start a library of reptile-related books and I was hoping that you could recommend some "must have" titles. I have recently come into around $2,500.00 as the result of an inheritance, and I think that it would be appropriate for the money to go towards something lasting and noble in honour of the memory of my late Grandfather, who was also a reptile lover and a dedicated conservationist. Thanks in advance, sir.
Signed: "Starved For Knowledge"

Dear "Starved": There's no way you could ever spend that much money on books. Well, maybe you could, but why would you? I can tell you that once you have "The Complete Ball Python", "The Ball Python Manual", "The Complete Boa", and "Ball Pythons: History, Care and Breeding", that's as big as any library needs to be. Period. As a pioneer in this industry, I would suggest that you take the remaining inheritance and invest it in some top-grade Captive Bred snakes. Send me an e-mail and I'll send you my updated list. Don't buy elsewhere until you have talked to me, because I can beat every other breeder's prices on today's hottest morphs. Customers who buy from me always get the best snakes at the best prices, and my after-sales service is second to none!

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder: Someone recently told me about an amazing kind of snake I had never heard of before called a "Coachwhip". I think that the scientific name is "Masticophis". He said that they are fantastic snakes, full of energy and vigor, and that they can be found in a surprising variety of natural colours. He also told me that they do really well in captivity if they are given the proper setup. What can you tell me about these snakes?
Signed: "Nature Lover"

Dear "Lover": I can tell you this. Your friend is pulling a joke on you, because there is no such snake. "Coach-whip"?? What is that supposed to be, a snake you would "whip" your favourite football "coach" with?? I can't believe anyone would fall for a dumb joke like that. For proof, just check out any major breeder's website and look for this "Coach-whip" of yours. You won't find it, and that should tell you all you need to know. Listen to what I say, because I am a pioneer in this industry. Instead of asking nonsensical questions about mythical snakes, you should check out my website "ExpertSnakeBreeder.com" for an extensive photo gallery of investment quality snakes that you can buy from me because they actually exist. Don't forget, I work with the best bloodlines in the industry, and I back all of my snakes with a 100% satisfaction guarantee!!

_____________________________________________________

"An Expert Snake-Breeder" is a noted reptile authority and Industry Giant. His column, "Ask An Expert Snake-Breeder" is nationally syndicated and appears in over 250 newspapers nation-wide.

[Nir 0]

Dear Expert-Snake Breeder:
I breed various species of colubrids for personnal pleasure. Recently a hatchling was born with two heads. The poor thing is alive, but really looks like a freak. Do you think it would be a good thing to feed it to my Indigo?
Signed: "Ophiophagy"

[JSI 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

Announcer: This "Duff" kid is one to watch, folks.

I was thinking the same thing D.Pogue, Duff is a welcome new member to the VIP Lounge.

Jeremy

P.S. I like anyone that like melanurus

[JSI 0]

Nir a écrit:

Great lodingi shots Don. I have a question though. I thought black pines had heavily keeled scales? The one pictures seems to have rather smooth scales. Does this vary with the specimens?

I thought I would take a stab at this question as it came to my mind this morning while observing a coiled, sleeping Pituophis melanoleucus lodingi. It's seems from my observations that the scales on the upper body of these snakes is like you said, heavily keeled, however on the sides of the body the scale seem to very abruptly lose their keeled surface and become smooth.

Jeremy

[Duff1 0]

Dear Expert Snake-Breeder:

I recently hatched out a clutch of drymobius margaritiferus. One of the neonates is an obvious axanthic. Even though this mutation completely ruins the normal beauty of this species I am ecstatic! He also has extreme skeletal deformities and a spastic cloaca. Instead of having a forked tongue, it is shaped like a trident and cannot be retracted into his mouth. He also has only one tooth - a molar growing through his bottom lip and out of his chin and has two wandering eyes. I have a two part question: What should I call this wonderful new morph and how much should I ask for his offspring?

Signed "Jeffy"

[D. Pogue 0]

It's been pretty quiet here for a couple of days. Could it be that this "Expert Snake Breeder" fellow is just another "investor" whose "advice" is merely empty, self-serving drivel, and as such not worth a pinch of dog vomit? I wonder........

LD/50 a écrit:

Actually, I find I'm getting more and more intersted in the science of reptiles than the "pet trade" angle. Theres only so much you can learn about "how to buy stuff" I find .

Perhaps we'd all best look elsewhere for good quality information about reptiles and amphibians, then. Maybe, just maybe, internet forums aren't the only place to get oneself informed when it comes to such things. One good starting point might be here:

http://ssarherps.org/





This organization deserves our support, I think. The emphasis is squarely on scientific enquiry, though, and not on how to maufacture and distribute designer pets. Maybe it's time we in the Reptile Hobby raised the bar a little. After all, there's really only so much one can read or "discus" when it comes to the puppy-milling and marketing of living feculence. Just a thought.

Regards,
D

ps - Up next..........."Black Is The New Black" .
pps - Up after that........a link to a "Youtube" video of yours truly berating a gallon-sized jug of "Nix" for fifteen minutes! .

[Spankenstyne 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

pps - Up after that........a link to a "Youtube" video of yours truly berating a gallon-sized jug of "Nix" for fifteen minutes! .

Haha I think I would almost pay to see that


SSAR definitely deserves our support. I'm kind of embarrassed to say i've thought of it many times before and have no good excuse to have not done anything about it.

I will throw in that I'm quite proud to say that the non-profit organization I'm currently president of: The Alberta Reptile and Amphibian Society (TARAS) on April 25th will be donating $3,000.00 for scientific research on our native Short Horned Lizard (Phrynosoma hernandesi). The first of what we hope to be yearly grants towards scientific research and conservation. Proud to say that the entire board was unanimous, so there's always some hope for the hobby yet

[Spankenstyne 0]

reptilX a écrit:

your P.M.deserticola is amazing am I all right on the species

P. m. melanoleucus aka Northern Pine snake. Thanks for the kind words I love these serpents.


Still anxiously waiting to see how the expert snake breeder replies to "Jeffy" and his perplexing conundrum..

[D. Pogue 0]

Thanks for the update on the TARAS Horned Lizard initiative, Chris. You guys should be commended for helping to fund this great work, and also for the size of the financial committment. That's a lot of money coming from a fairly small but obviously very dedicated group. It's nice to see an organization primarily made up of Hobbyists taking the conservation of their native species this seriously, and even more impressive that the species in question is not one that is commonly offered in the Pet Trade, or kept by Hobbyists. Sincere thanks to all concerned from a fellow conservationist. Your post really makes me wonder, though..........

What If..............?

What if............all of the money and effort that's been put into promoting "sales" and the creation and crass/mass marketing of horribly deformed and deliberately manufactured Investment-Quality Investments had instead been allocated for reptile habitat protection around the world?

What if.............instead of concentrating on combining aberrant and deleterious traits in a handful of arbitrarily-deemed "profitable" species for personal financial gain only, all so-called "Professional Breeders" had opted to work exclusively on a combined effort to keep and propagate only locality-specific, genetically "clean" un-modified reptiles?

What if.............these same people had dedicated their efforts to supporting breeding programs stocked with critically endangered reptiles, with the noble goal of eventual re-introduction of these species to existing or re-claimed habitat?

Think about that for a minute.........

What we now have instead is a laughable "industry" that creates and distributes such idiotic products as "Repti-Moon-Glow Drops" and "Iggy's Iguana Leash" and the hilariously-overpriced "package-deal" enclosures that come loaded with a bunch of offensively useless cage decorations that might appeal to a particularly slow child, but would go un-noticed and un-appreciated by any captive reptile.

I think the truth is that if only our combined emphasis as Hobbyists had been on "pure forms" over the past twenty years or so instead of on "mutant pets", we would all be a whole lot better off. Of course, the Hobby wouldn't have nearly as many millionnaires driving around in Hummers and shiny-noo BMW "7-Series", I'll admit. If those are the things one really values in life, though, why not just factor the living creatures out, and stick to mutual funds, the stock market, crack distribution, or perhaps the analagously sleazy but hugely profitable "adult entertainment" industry?

They're all legitimate questions, I think. Any answers out there?

Regards,
D

[Duff1 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

Thanks for the update on the TARAS Horned Lizard initiative, Chris. You guys should be commended for helping to fund this great work, and also for the size of the financial committment. That's a lot of money coming from a fairly small but obviously very dedicated group. It's nice to see an organization primarily made up of Hobbyists taking the conservation of their native species this seriously, and even more impressive that the species in question is not one that is commonly offered in the Pet Trade, or kept by Hobbyists. Sincere thanks to all concerned from a fellow conservationist. Your post really makes me wonder, though..........

What If..............?

What if............all of the money and effort that's been put into promoting "sales" and the creation and crass/mass marketing of horribly deformed and deliberately manufactured Investment-Quality Investments had instead been allocated for reptile habitat protection around the world?

What if.............instead of concentrating on combining aberrant and deleterious traits in a handful of arbitrarily-deemed "profitable" species for personal financial gain only, all so-called "Professional Breeders" had opted to work exclusively on a combined effort to keep and propagate only locality-specific, genetically "clean" un-modified reptiles?

What if.............these same people had dedicated their efforts to supporting breeding programs stocked with critically endangered reptiles, with the noble goal of eventual re-introduction of these species to existing or re-claimed habitat?

Think about that for a minute.........

What we now have instead is a laughable "industry" that creates and distributes such idiotic products as "Repti-Moon-Glow Drops" and "Iggy's Iguana Leash" and the hilariously-overpriced "package-deal" enclosures that come loaded with a bunch of offensively useless cage decorations that might appeal to a particularly slow child, but would go un-noticed and un-appreciated by any captive reptile.

I think the truth is that if only our combined emphasis as Hobbyists had been on "pure forms" over the past twenty years or so instead of on "mutant pets", we would all be a whole lot better off. Of course, the Hobby wouldn't have nearly as many millionnaires driving around in Hummers and shiny-noo BMW "7-Series", I'll admit. If those are the things one really values in life, though, why not just factor the living creatures out, and stick to mutual funds, the stock market, crack distribution, or perhaps the analagously sleazy but hugely profitable "adult entertainment" industry?

They're all legitimate questions, I think. Any answers out there?

Regards,
D

All those what-ifs are bad for business you mean old fart. Everyone knows that the joy of snake ownership is directly proportional to the amount of money spent on the animal.

Any dumb red-neck with a strategically placed piece of siding and a snake hook can go out and get himself an inferior pituophis, masticophis, drymobius, thamnophis, lampropeltis, pantherophis, elaphe, coluber, blah, blah, blah.

And what's so cool about those snakes? They are always pooping and biting and hissing and tail rattling. $1200 for a dry that will paint the walls of a giant cage with liquid death twice a week? Ha! You can get a ghost titanium super epileptic bee het for kinked spine ball for that.........

Superior animals shit once a week, go on extended fasts for no good reason and curl into a little ball when confronted by anything faintly menacing.

If the community in general were to take the time to revel in the beauty of what lives in their own backyards, many of these hacks would be forced to go back to selling car stereos at Wal-Mart.

PS - I have to admit, the bald pie morph sounds - er -exciting.
PPS - My bad - it was pie bald.

[cowboy xav 0]

Duff a écrit:

pituophis, masticophis, drymobius, thamnophis, lampropeltis, pantherophis, elaphe, coluber, blah, blah, blah.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH I love reading those world, sound like music in my ear

[LD/50 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

Perhaps we'd all best look elsewhere for good quality information about reptiles and amphibians, then. Maybe, just maybe, internet forums aren't the only place to get oneself informed when it comes to such things. One good starting point might be here:

http://ssarherps.org/

Thanks for the SSAR link, DP . Like Spankenstyne, I don't have a good excuse for not joining up til now , but thats going to change on Monday, I've been looking for something more than the 'recipe' stuff I find in the usual hobby magazines.

I too wish that the hobby had a better reputation when it comes to ethics and conservation. Sad to say that your last post pretty much sums it up. For every TARAS program, tho, theres a thousand selfish 'professionals' out there, people who dont give a crap about habitat or animals in nature. Speaking this kind of raw truth won't make you many friends in the 'industry' LOL, but someone had to say it, the hobby overall really is a disreputable mess. There are a number of good ethical people too, don't get me wrong, just proportionally not enough to account for all the people doing the irreversible damage to the captive gene pool.

Lets hope you don't get 'banned' here too. Many people with a financial interest in reptiles won't appreciate or even understand what you just said, lets hope you can continue to speak here for the 'silent minority'.

steven

PS 'Freedom of speech'
PPS 'Censorship'
PPPS "Listen to what I say because I am a pioneer in this industry!"
PPPPS 'Bald pie morph' LOL ( )

[Jon Davidson 0]

In my view, it comes down to ethics and maturity, as Richard Ross(The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas) eluded to in his 1996 editorial entitled: 'Emerging Ethics and Attitudes in Herpetoculture' in the Journal: Herpetological Natural History, Vol. 4; No. 1(June 1996). In the early days, the whole point of serious captive maintenance projects was the protection of genetic integrity. It's sad to see the current generation of Reptile Keepers/Hobbiests using many of the pioneering husbandry techniques to propragate degenerate genetic abnormality for novelty and profit. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

[Spankenstyne 0]

D. Pogue a écrit:

Thanks for the update on the TARAS Horned Lizard initiative, Chris. You guys should be commended for helping to fund this great work, and also for the size of the financial committment. That's a lot of money coming from a fairly small but obviously very dedicated group. It's nice to see an organization primarily made up of Hobbyists taking the conservation of their native species this seriously, and even more impressive that the species in question is not one that is commonly offered in the Pet Trade, or kept by Hobbyists. Sincere thanks to all concerned from a fellow conservationist. Your post really makes me wonder, though..........

What If..............?

What if............all of the money and effort that's been put into promoting "sales" and the creation and crass/mass marketing of horribly deformed and deliberately manufactured Investment-Quality Investments had instead been allocated for reptile habitat protection around the world?

What if.............instead of concentrating on combining aberrant and deleterious traits in a handful of arbitrarily-deemed "profitable" species for personal financial gain only, all so-called "Professional Breeders" had opted to work exclusively on a combined effort to keep and propagate only locality-specific, genetically "clean" un-modified reptiles?

What if.............these same people had dedicated their efforts to supporting breeding programs stocked with critically endangered reptiles, with the noble goal of eventual re-introduction of these species to existing or re-claimed habitat?

Think about that for a minute.........

What we now have instead is a laughable "industry" that creates and distributes such idiotic products as "Repti-Moon-Glow Drops" and "Iggy's Iguana Leash" and the hilariously-overpriced "package-deal" enclosures that come loaded with a bunch of offensively useless cage decorations that might appeal to a particularly slow child, but would go un-noticed and un-appreciated by any captive reptile.

I think the truth is that if only our combined emphasis as Hobbyists had been on "pure forms" over the past twenty years or so instead of on "mutant pets", we would all be a whole lot better off. Of course, the Hobby wouldn't have nearly as many millionnaires driving around in Hummers and shiny-noo BMW "7-Series", I'll admit. If those are the things one really values in life, though, why not just factor the living creatures out, and stick to mutual funds, the stock market, crack distribution, or perhaps the analagously sleazy but hugely profitable "adult entertainment" industry?

They're all legitimate questions, I think. Any answers out there?

Regards,
D

Great questions (and great pionts brought up in the posts following). Too bad it has to be rhetorical what ifs... The tiny step forward out here has been embarassingly long overdue but is at least a small step in the right direction, with hopefully many more to follow. There's some small solace when one considers who and where the majority of dollars donated came from

Jon Davidson a écrit:

In my view, it comes down to ethics and maturity, as Richard Ross(The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas) eluded to in his 1996 editorial entitled: 'Emerging Ethics and Attitudes in Herpetoculture' in the Journal: Herpetological Natural History, Vol. 4; No. 1(June 1996). In the early days, the whole point of serious captive maintenance projects was the protection of genetic integrity. It's sad to see the current generation of Reptile Keepers/Hobbiests using many of the pioneering husbandry techniques to propragate degenerate genetic abnormality for novelty and profit. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .

Well said as well Jon... but to be honest I do find myself feeling a bit dirty & hypocritical as well though considering I do have a small collection of mutant sand boas that's a guilty pleasure of mine

[Spankenstyne 0]

Feeling much better today

...and now for something completely different.....

Happy to also report that our female horsfieldi dropped two more eggs. She started digging yesterday so we knew it was coming, but surprising overall. I've read that two or three clutches are possible but I had expected if it happened, to be much later in the year.

...In 1945, peace broke out. ...