LD/50

La "Lounge VIP" 20 Mai 2010 La salle de classe 20 Mai 2010 L'entrée principale 20 Mai 2010 La bibliothèque de photo 20 Mai 2010 steven ps -

Well....my thoughts are that a bunch of us were invited here by one of the bosses, and everyone knew that most of us were 'difficult' because we questioned the party line. We've all been banned or put on 'read only' elsewhere, THAT'S WHY WE CAME HERE. So what you got here was or shouldn't have been any big surprise, Mr. Stav. What's the matter, Mr. Stav? Got too many messed-up pets that you can't sell in this damaged economy?? Feeling the heat because you're "invested" in the shittiest "business" on the planet?? You sure picked a great load of scumbags to defend here on your site. Remember, you're the one who personalized the debate. All most of us did here was speak out against "bad information", "bad ideas" and a hobby thats overwhelmed with money grubbers. If you are NOT a money grubber, why would you be offended by the word? I think that stevie the roughneck has a little frozen treat for you, sir. I suggest that you take it and sit on the front steps of this site and think about what you've done . Also, please make sure you 'wipe' and then 'flush' before you pull your pants back up. People will start to notice if you don't. Enjoy your new "controversy free" site, sir. You deserve it. steven chalmers PS Feel free to close my account, I won't need it anymore. The last thing I'm interested in is "another" site where the main goal is to "just make nice" all the time. PPS Your MSN comment is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in print, and I've seen a lot of "stupid" over the past couple of years. PPPS Too bad some people can't see the difference between illiterate MSN crap and legitimate, intelligent points. There really IS a difference, maybe one day you'll learn to differentiate.

Rancor, I was thinking the same thing as I read all of the posts from today and yesterday. I have not seen this kind of honest, educated and intelligent discussion since the old J&W thread, and we all know where that amazing and massive piece of work went. Freedom of speech is OK for some people if THEY'RE the only ones who have the freedom to speak. Try to put forth a completely opposite set of ideas ("ethics" maybe?) and most places you're shut down. Many of us speak from direct personal experience on this one. I think it would be an embarrassment for any site to have outside forces dictate what their content should be, tho. Just me mind you. I think its clear that the people who justify their presence in the reptile hobby with their unregistered "businesses" and sad broken animals are the polar opposites of most readers here on this thread. And I think its obvious that most legislators can't and don't take a raggedy group of mostly "non tax paying" whiners very seriously when law making time comes. Why should they? So what if some tool with 20 tattoos and the communication skills of a packing peanut wants to keep and sell this or that reptile? When you stack up the damage these selfish types have done, along with the various reported incidents involving exotic herps its a sad picture. But maybe for some its not 100% their fault. Lots of these greedy grubbers only know reptiles from their first "pet store" experience or from "the internet" NOT from the cottage or the ravine at the end of the street. Its too bad, because for many people "designer snakes" are REAL, they're BETTER than unmodified "normal" reptiles. So these poor turds revere the herp equivalent of but don't understand or care about . It follows then that this is too confusing, but this is something to be taken seriously . Instead of listening to this they sit and stare lovingly at this Now after falling for one of the worst investment scams of our times, these silly deluded people innocently log on to this little thread just to see what the fuss is all about. And they read the literate, thought provoking words of Mr. Pogue. And Mr. Davidson. And rancor. And JSI. And for an American perspective, Duff. All well written, all posted within "the rules" of open and honest debate. And they're really, really pissed. Because they KNOW they have no rebuttal, other than "I feel like it, its my right!" or my favourite "I make money doing this!" I guess they try to come up with a good point, but it must be frustrating to be slow, and pointless, and hopelessly addicted to a delusion, a "mirage". So here's how they end up: Enjoy your opressive legislation and your financial meltdowns, guys. You deserve it. steven

Jeremy, could you please cite your sources? You just can't come on here and make such a clearly biased statement about the "coolness" of such a boring, worthless species unless you're prepared to back it up with sereral "Google" sources! I know of one site in particular where the "experts" would show you all the "proof" you could want telling you that you're dead wrong. The "proof" would of course be in the form of a bank statement or maybe even the pink slips to a garage filled with BMW 7 series LOL! Don, I have to say I am NOT "alienated" by the latest load of Thamnophis pics, far from it! Some of those photos are the best I've ever seen of any wild snakes. Just amazing pics, and a few are classics of wildlife photography. I personally could enjoy a huge picture thread with nothing BUT garters . Thanks also for the Tom Petty reference, that CD is one of my favourites. The whole thing is about the destruction of art and music by money grubbers and self serving whores, the "Cash is King" types. Sadly appropriate and relevant to our hobby in 2009. steven PS PPS

Thanks for the SSAR link, DP . Like Spankenstyne, I don't have a good excuse for not joining up til now , but thats going to change on Monday, I've been looking for something more than the 'recipe' stuff I find in the usual hobby magazines. I too wish that the hobby had a better reputation when it comes to ethics and conservation. Sad to say that your last post pretty much sums it up. For every TARAS program, tho, theres a thousand selfish 'professionals' out there, people who dont give a crap about habitat or animals in nature. Speaking this kind of raw truth won't make you many friends in the 'industry' LOL, but someone had to say it, the hobby overall really is a disreputable mess. There are a number of good ethical people too, don't get me wrong, just proportionally not enough to account for all the people doing the irreversible damage to the captive gene pool. Lets hope you don't get 'banned' here too. Many people with a financial interest in reptiles won't appreciate or even understand what you just said, lets hope you can continue to speak here for the 'silent minority'. steven PS 'Freedom of speech' PPS 'Censorship' PPPS "Listen to what I say because I am a pioneer in this industry!" PPPPS 'Bald pie morph' LOL ( )

The choice to allow bad advice in the name of not scaring away potential customers is a fully conscious one. The choice to rid these forums of people who call them on this crap is an equally deliberate one. Very well said. As a person who is really interested in learning more about snakes in particular, but all reptiles in general, I get tired of reading endless junk about "market value" and "where to buy stuff", but thats what its all about some places. I want to read about real reptiles, not the current prices of man made mutants. If you dare to question or heaven forbid "mock" one of the "experts" who spend all day on those sites promoting their tacky "businesses", you get threatened with a "permanent ban" (me) or maybe you have your password changed without your knowledge.......or maybe you get put into a "can't post, just read" category because your views are considered too dangerous, or in my case "funny" LOL . I myself count the least in the mix because I am not intersted in "buying" loads of snakes, or even breeding them myself. I just like to learn more about the reptiles I love. Apparently no one is permitted to say anything about anything, anywhere on the internet, without first agreeing to agree all the time with the shifty characters who profit from the reptile equivalent of Multi Level Marketing. I bet if we all moved to Japan and started posting our comments on a Japanese site (in Japanese, too!)"someone" would still follow us there to try and control the message or the viewpoint. Whats so dangerous about appreciating nature and disliking the morph mania that some of us think is ruining the hobby? I guess everybody's entitled to an opinion until it challenges the satus quo. steven PS "asinine avatar" PPS "Hey, Morph-Man!! Lookin' good with those gold teeth, Dude er, I mean "Bro"

Wow! Great to see that "Roger Conant" column again, I thought it had been killed forever . I guess its gentle humour like that that gets people kicked out of the party "some places" LOL. I'm told that somewhere else on the interwebs a Big Time Professional Breeder has been slagging coachwhips because they're not "worth" as much as some kind of aberrant Ball Python . That kind of statement qualifies the poster quite well, doesn't it? Maybe Frank Zappa said it best....... A wise man once wrote on a very jumpy and somewhat worthless thread long, long ago that there's nothing wrong with making money, but if that's all you're about then we have a word for what you are . steven PS Some people consider these greedy puppy mill style mutant snake breeders to be "experts" on reptiles in general and snakes specifically, it's too bad that there isn't a REAL expert like the late Roger Conant writing an internet advice column to set things straight. That would be just what the doctor ordered .

I love all of these wild snake pics! BUT I just can't imagine a "perfect" CB snake with all that mud on it LOL . Maybe someone should collect all of these terrible wild snakes and give them a bath and some immediate medical care, too because they just look so "wild caught". Whats with all these "wild" snakes anyways?? Don't snakes belong in tiny little plastic boxes along with all of the other valuable "investments"??? Sorry, I couldn't help it. At least when I make a little joke here, everyone knows I'm kidding (maybe some even laugh at my sillier stuff?), and I don't have to worry about getting 'banned' yet again because a threat like that hanging over your head might make a person stop posting or even logging in LOL . Mr. P. it looks to me like maybe some of these garters might be hibernating in mud, or even under water. I wonder how common that is? Actually, I find I'm getting more and more intersted in the science of reptiles than the "pet trade" angle. Theres only so much you can learn about "how to buy stuff" I find . steven

Salut! C'est une photo tres belle . J' ai une nouvelle "screen saver" LOL. steven

Oh yeah! Phil, Thamnophis atratus pics are something I would love to see here . I went herping on my lunch hour yesterday and again today, in a local large park. No luck so far, tho, not even the red eared sliders like I usually see there . I hope someone will post 'emerging garter' pics soon, I'm going stir crazy from all that winter weather LOL. steven PS I think I found some of beekeeper's teeth and one of his lungs when I was mopping and vacuuming the Lounge after closing time on Monday night, if anybody knows how to contact him we can hold his bits in the Lost & Found until he can claim them. After he heals up from that 'corrective surgery' I mean .

This is very insightful...................who could this "beekeeper" possibly be? Jeremy P.S. http://www.ilovebees.com P.S……………it must be someone else. Yeah, Jeremy, I even thought it might be this guy (speaking of yappy little dogs LOL): http://www.bagshop.com/store/mcart.php?ID=2907 But it isn't. Still, he's a cute little pup, isnt he?? steven PS "Fruity little dog-purse"

Pure 100% Crap. Whats with these bitter and yappy types? I personally dont come here to read this kind of pointless and weak 'flame' garbage, I come here to learn and yes even to laugh a little. Posters like this clown contribute nothing, because its clear they have NOTHING to say. If you dont like it dont search it out to read it. That simple. Try and read that ridiculous insulting post and get anything from it except that the poster (and his 'kind') has a 'personal problem' with someone who many of us feel is the best writer and photographer on ANY reptile site. Period. This is why so many reptile keepers don't take most reptile boards seriously, and avoid them, especially 'one' board in particular where "cash is king", and stupidity, ugly colour-morphs and childish 'bans' rule. JSI, Jon Davidson, Don, "me", we've all been 'banned' and then 'unbanned' at another site for what terrible crimes I'm still not sure. It shouldn't be a crime to have and state an unpopular opinion, should it. To you beekeeper I would say: Enjoy your investments because obviously thats what you're into. Money and cars, bla bla bla, are so important to you and the mutant snakes in plastic drawers are just what gets you to what you really value in life, thats pretty clear. Most people on this thread have a respect for nature, and also for Mr. Pogue and his always enjoyable and informative posts. I seriously doubt that Don cares what some little worm like you thinks about him LOL. Go back where you came from, as you are truly respected there. But not here. steven PS "Prolly" . Look, I know I'm not the best writer or speller, but "prolly" ? Did you fail grade 3 English? What a clown. PPS Nobody is talking about KEEPING Masassauga rattlers here, why does it always have to be about "owning" things all the time? PPS "Get off MY lawn too!"

Wow. I need to make a doctors appointment tomorrow morning, my jaw is very sore from stretching so much and then hitting the floor LOL! This thread seems to have taken on a life of its own, it is growing like a weed right before my eyes. I have to thank Manu, Marc, Justin, Stav, and all the other Repticlic bosses for allowing this incredibly good conversation to happen here . What a breath of fresh air. I'll try my hand at Nir's turtle quiz, I think I can count 7, maybe even 8 painters: Its hard to tell with the last 3 'possible' turtles (NOT 'possible HETS' LOL ) since the resolution on the pic is pretty small, but I think theres more than 5 for sure. Too bad about the road kills, too. I have seen it many times in the past few years on the way to the cottage. I have heard of the study that Spankenstyne is talking about. Seems like lots of drivers do try to deliberately hit animals (especially herps) on the road, I cant even imagine what type of person would get pleasure from that kind of act. steven PS 'Naturally occurring deformities' PPS 'RealSnakes' tm are 'ToughSnakes' tm

LOL, that tortoise looks like he's dedicated to his job !! What species is that? I've never kept tortoises, but I really do find them fascinating. If I was a "mod" here I would announce that I hadn't kept them and then I would post a googled link to a another site about tortoises, or maybe even a site about "potato growing" LOL. You never know with those instant expert google links . I guess its good that I'm not a "mod" . Big thanks to Don for the stunning photos yet again. I'm amazed at the rattlesnakes (one of my favourites), and blown away by the habitat. I have seen one and only one big game Ontario snake, it was an eastern hognose at a friends cottage in 2002. Of course no one had a camera that day . I can't beleive the quality and consistency of the pics on this thread! I for one cant wait for the next additions, I think I'll have to start logging in every day now. steven PS still working on my Francais PPS "MFWZ"