Stav

Je dirais plus d'après les photos que c'est une infection dûe souvent a un trop d'humidité ou substrat humide ou substrat humide souillé d'urines .

Superbe , c'est une de mes morphs préférées aussi !

Suoerbe !

Killer et + ! Débile qu'il est rendu , bonne chance a vous deux les gars !

Make me laugh Irreprochable Cinderella Its always amazing to see how " Hypocrite Doubled Standarded Money Making Cinderellas " regurgitate a bunch of stupidities without never looking at their own Shiny Belly Button ...... it proves the true soul of Cinderella .....everybody is a Whore except the Whore it self ....especially when irreprochable Cinderella uses and always finds the way of making money out of someones good will and innocence ...... At least when I go to sleep at night I sleep good ... I never go to sleep feeling like a wolf who profited of someones good intentions to make money out of him mostly buying and resselling his stuff twice and triple the price I got them for .... neither I go to sleep knowing that i have a double standard conscience like the " Money Wolves" who do it and pollute this hobby for the 1 $ profit they make . Basically I sleep good knowing i didint fuck anyone Cinderella... in this case one of the "Whores" ..... Good msn chat , dont you have msn ? its a good place for people to exchange their lies and hypocricies and their bedtime stories... You know what ? I have some self respect not whoring myself ..... when I say I had enough of a board I just dont go anymore ....

Thanks encore Je dervais etre capable de venir faire un tour au prochain meeting Nick

Bonne fête Kate !

Hey merçi tout le monde Non cé pas parceque anne travaille c'est parceque j'ai pas trouvé de Viva-Gras

Craig , for me all this has no link to any kind of revolution or revolution thread . Lets not get into this . I understand you anger if you gave accurate info on boards and had concequences . But each board has its own rules and ideas . For my part i never been moderated on this subject or for expressing my views on stuff like ethics and morals of the hobby . I had some issues with an american board were i spoke about something that was untrue and got moderated .... and i'm fine with it because everyone is free to run its stuff at his will . I understand everything you say . A virus like IBD though I think even if everybody would make his best to test and re- test everything to give somekind of warranty of IBD free ( in the best of worlds ) I think its close to physicaly impossible . ..... close to impossible in the sense that the technology and the ways used to identify the desease is not enough advanced in present day to make it possible . Lets imagine a senario where someone is conscient of the danger and makes all that is possible to do to these days to avoid it . He has 1 snake or many . He brings another one in , he puts it in a quaranteen room until biopsies are made .... until now everything is fine . Where it gets a bit tricky is when you know that a large quantity of organs have to be biopsied and tested ( a fair amout of tissues and it can be faulty ) and also know that Inclusions can be found at one spot on one organ but not necesseraly in all organs ... how do you do it ? How do you take a sample of a small snake's brain to bring for biopsy ? What about if the inclusions are located in the brain only and you need to find out ? Understand what I mean ? I think that unfortunatly until there is a simple test like in other animals to prevent one desease , there is not much to do other than taking all the necessary actions when 1 animal is identified with Inclusions . There has to be someking of testing like easy blood sample testing that needs to be invented so that people are able to controle- irradicate an outbreak even before it starts . We know that blood testing means nothing in this case but you get the idea ? For now I think what can be made is to inform everyone that gets into the hobby thrue education that somekinds of deseases like IBD but many other deseases as well are dangerous to their animals and also to humans . In the sense that no one entering in this hobby thinks that he is untouchable by deseases and has or will always have deseases free animals or collecitons.... and that one day everything is ok and the next everything could be euthanised or dead . Understand what i mean ?

yep nothing more to say from my part you talked about pretty much everything concerning IBD .... this is all what i have in my book . Me too I laugh a bit at myself first because the first things you learn in past books and publications about reptile care and deseases about quaranteen is 6 months recommendations . Some snakes might have it for years its a retrovirus , asymptomatic as you say just like aids .... infact the snakes can have it the majority of their life without noticining it way more than 5 yrs, not even having other clinical signs during their life ... Quaranteen is good for things like mites , ticks , bacterial , internal parasites etc.... but again all these it might be very difficult to notice and might as well be hidden until a stress , a down temperature , etc... comes for the snake to start symptoms.... ( Thanks for the pancreas and gall bladder i forgot to mention those in the testing ) .... For your question i dont really know .... i think every reptile keeper not only boa keepers should be aware and learn about the deseases of their reptiles . The most important to do as i use to say , is bring your animals to a " qualified" reptile vet and make your biggest possible to necropsy the dead ones , if possible just before they die . for me my experience thrue the vets and the vet bills I see it like a private course where you learn and see and understand everytime more and more .... the amount people put in veterinary care versus the knowledge is priceless even if you give an arm or leg.

Hey thanks tout le monde oui en effet c'est aujourd'hui Gab mais je penssais que c'étais demain quelqu'un me l'a remémoré tantot Sly ....... c'est délectable

félicitations encore pat et arianne la petite "Rock" en tout points ! Grace a vous on commence les accouplements pour un autre bientot

Ouaip ça ça peut etre un probleme le blocage de uv pour ceux qui en ont besoin simon .... ce que quelqu'un peut faire c'est boucher autour de sa lampe ou neon .... dans ce sens la .... personnellement quand je me servais de lampes pour chauffer un terra j'avais des vitres qui étaient sur les grillages directement ( évidement grillage de métal ) ou bien autour de la lampe dépendement de comment ça se configurait sur le couvercle .

again some pathetic me myself and my litle I that dosent take critic and assumes everything in its own pathetic way ..... way to go it shows what kind of judgement you have ..... good thing to judje others as well

Distorted stuff as i mentionned like this happen everyday on the net which brings me to the Spider Ball Example to name only this one.... Everybody is assuming that the head thing is something genetic thing. Some have it and some dont . When someone knows a fare ammount of deseases .... bacteria , mychos , protozoans , parasites , viruses etc.... can cause exactly the same thing , take bacterial encephalitis for example that damages the brain on a declared episode ..... well the snake will live with a damged brain , eating and doing his normal stuff even breeding , the only thing will be his coordination .... how come nobody makes necropsies while the snakes are alive to drop assumptions and make it 1+1=2 instead of putting everything on genetics when something like that comes out or even a kink on a snake ? As i said once on an english forum .... how come you dont hear people that say I've done the testing , i cant beleive with the tons of spiders been produced all these years that no one did it at least once . I asked this question directly to some " breeders that have nice well constructed sites in the us " but nobody could answer my question ..... even .... some just didint cared answering the mails .... its all fishy .... either some breeders dont care spending money for those kind of things or they simply dont care .....( note someone might have done it now its been a while what i'm talking about . ) What about if its some kind of virus or bacteria present in the mother transmits to the babies as a whole , partially or no one just before the shelling of the egg ? Healthy CB babies can carry a bunch of things that are transmittes from the mother .... how come these things are not taken in considerations ? Today , a kink , a head shake , non eaters , good eaters etc....... everything comes to genetics but at least thats what people assume everyday and on the net its blowened out of proportions making it a huge collective brainwashed paranoia . get what I mean ?

Nope Craig I will not challenge you anything or make you change any opinion you have .... for me every one is free to breath , eat or believe anything they want , we are in a free world at least canada and the states ..... You have an opinion on something I might have another one on one subject depending or tow persons experiences . This said , no matter views , opinions , debates etc.... lets say a boa , you dont hybernate or keep at a temperature of 10 celcius ..... do you get what I'm trying to say ? Yep I get you when you talk about people telling you that its impossible and that you hurt sales . I also get you on your other views on that as well ..... A few questions to start with before going any further on the subject : - What kind of vet was it - Did necropsies have been done on those snakes ? - If yes what type of testing ( the whole thing ) was done ? - If yes where did all go for analysis for the inclusion bodies ? - Were the snakes were euthanized while alive or necropsies done after death or even freezed and thawed ? It would be great to start from there .... if you can answer these questions as precissly as possible I would appreciate it ..... more .... if you have the pathologists ( a vet is not a pathologist just if some had the question in their minds ) report scanned this kind of info on a forum is priceless ..... Other than that , IBD Comes from some Venomous snakes and colubrids to begin with , just to inform if some people were asking themselfs . I cant talk for the states , but here in Canada its very rare and only now I heard of some case identified but cant say what kind of reptiles . My Vet never heard of any case before 2006 , I had tests done myself on one occasion , where I also got the info on rates of cases ( I spend from around 500$ to 1500$ a year with my vet .... just because I dont give to myself a simplist answer when a problem occurs or is about to occur no matter the problem .... i think its also the best thing to do to reverse false assomptions on deaseases that occur in reptile collections and things said at large on forums assumed by either the proprietor or an unqualified vet , is to test and treat everything thrue a qualified vet ..... it helps drop the false from truth and the maybes ..... just a litle parenthesis ) So lets start from there if you agree.... Edit *** Forgot again ..... just at large if it helps , IBD is many times missidentified by unqulified vet that dont make proper testing or no less on the subject. IBD is often Put in cause because of this instead of identifing bacteria , parasites , other viruses that cross the brain membrane and have identical signs as IBD . Reptile Vet, Stav. - Live biopsies were done on the liver and the esophogeal tonsils - confirmed IBD in both animals. Necropsies were also performed on the male. - Analysis of the inclusion bodies was done at UC Davis. History: I had a male and female tarahumara locality dwarf boas. Female was 6 years old, male 5. I had had both since they were a couple months old. They were the only boas in my collection. The male began coming down with subclinical infections and anorexia. He began showing acute septicemia and was treated with several rounds of antibiotics. He would go through brief periods of remission and then get a new subclinical infection. He was checked for parasites, OPMV and tumors/growths. He never showed any neurological signs - as a matter of fact, neither snake did. He had full blood and metabolic panels done. We then went for a liver biopsy which was negative. After consultation with other vets at Davis, my vet recommended: (1) a biopsy of the esophogeal tonsils - positive. (2) biopsies on the female boa and all pythons in my collection. The female also came back positive for inclusion cell. All of the pythons came back negative. Both boas were euthanized and I paid for additional necropsies which uncovered inclusion cells in the gall bladder and pacreas. I spent a small fortune in testing my animals. Here's the rub. I had not added a new animal in 11 months. None of the pythons or colubrids ever became sick. Here I sit almost 9 month removed from the ordeal and all of my snakes are healthy. So one of my boas (or possibly both) were asymptomatic carriers in excess of 5 years. After talking to vets and other people who have gone through this, this is not an uncommon occurrence............ Your turn........ Great stuff , this is what I call extensive good vet work . For me with an adult albino Boa that a guy got from me 8 months before that jumped into conclusions and calls one friday night to say ..... the boa is sick it has IBD .... I said put it on the first flight and send it back to me which he did first hour on the following monday . The snake arrived at the airport and what a surprise .... It had feces jamed on it , with both upper lip and lower lip " missing all the scales " ( scale rot but around the mouth ) ...... it shows you the improper care some give to their animal ..... Not to say that not a milimeter of muscle or fat was present on the snake . ( I have pictures of that right on the spot at the airport and also pics at the necropsy . ) It showed all symptoms you can see on the internet and in vet books including crawling with its head shifting on one side like if there was no balance or a muscle jamed its neck crossthread ..... Going to the vet , it could have been anything , and this where I truely learned that IBD epidemics is often blowed out of proportions because of the internet and also because of other unqualified reptile vets , I decided not to make any biopsies , i prefered that the vet euthanised it so that " the freshest " samples possible of all organs susseptible of carrying Inclusions where sent to a pathology lab in Guelf ( ontario ) for testing to know exactly if inclusions where found somewhere in the snake. Some times it can be found in many organs , sometimes its present only in a few or one it would had been too many biopsies at one . This Includes : - Liver samples - Intestine - stomach samples - Spinal cord sample ( is this the word in english ? ) ( Moëlle épiniaire ) - Heart samples - Lung samples - Blood - Gall Bladder - Pancreas The results came back negative , on the report even the pathologist states how much the samples were in perfect way and that its been a long time he didint work with such good specimens ..... No Inclusions was found in any sample . It had encephalitis ( pretty commonly mistaken for IBD ) causes by bacteria or another virus . Offcourse all this because of poor maintenance like desinfection ..... This is a good example on how things get distorted thrue the net by " assumptions ". Without proper vet work IBD would have been the cause in the mind of the guy but changed his mind when i sent the pathology tests results .

Stevie Stevie Stevie ...... you words are very funny ...... those who speak about freedom of speach but cant swallow that same freedom of speach of others offcourse this even if no one did abything to freedom of speach See thats what is all about ...... you nailed it hummm what is it ? is it one way freedom of speach and to hell the other way ? I love that self proclaimed title ...... does it give you some kind of status in your head or something ? If yes well its very fine with me "Revolutionnaires" ..... makes me think that its a really nice title for a forum ..... maybe you should think about it and start it with principal rule ..... " Freedom one way speach .... those who have another way speach please shut-up " .....

exactly , and corns as a matter of fact as i said many times any reptile should be monitored not only by its owner but with permit just like there is in France the legislation and the courses a bit like fishing permits or hunting permits with courses ......... the only difference is that I dont hide in double standards that fit me when I need them to fit

Hey Craig, that's my favorite part of your post. I know Stav does take a long time for posts about ideology and i sometimes do too but i'm really not into it tonight, so i'll just leave it to this. I find it strange that people say they love an animal and yet they transform it so much, not to mention that it alters the bloodlines and the genepools... Doesnt make much sense to me. Anyways, goodnight . phil. Obviously you dont know what you are talking about ...... and isint it you that talks about purity and portray the snakes you import like locals like the redtailed greens ..... as " Java" local ? because they the ones you got where silver and that the wholesaler there told you that they were from a specific local taking it for granted and spewing it like if it was god that told " its called missrepresenting " ..... this even if I told in person many time that you gonna have a bunch of colours in the clutches no matter their local or if they where silver ???????? Offcourse you shut your mouth hey Bistro ? By the way I never heard any thanks from your mouth in person or even on a forum on telling you how to properly incubate your eggs you got from those wc females ...... not me not Elchef or Justin ..... you know what ..... they would have ended up like your others attemps to incubate ...... You are one that speaks about " profit " , " morphs" and things pêople should do or should not do or what everyone is capable of keeping safely ...... or selling ..... What a hypocritic view on the whole thing when a guy is proud to write axanthic on a scrub " and this even without genetics proven ... a wc one " ..... and on top of that criticising people selling anacondas or other dangerous snakes , when " you " , Your self is selling dangerous snakes like scrubs at large at a close to a 1000% profit from your original wc Cost ...... youre one that How much are you selling the silver babies that cost you nothing to produce ( wc gravid females ) ? 175$ each ??? now if this is not profit ....... hummmmmm For me you can sell whatever price you want or even give them free whatever the snake but dont have a 2 faced hypocrit standard were when it fits you you shut your mouth ..... and when it fits others their ethics are no good and are worthless ...... I gave sold in the past regular boas to up to 350$ - 400$ because ÙI decided they where worth that but without playing the adolescent " waht fits me " is ok what fits you its not ..... So spare us your " Love for animals " love for the hobby " and your twisted two faces talks where its ok for you to import """""" WC stuff - making tons of profit on them - some times missrepresennting them as locality stuff to be able to sell them as something special just like the exporter that sells them to you """""" all this hidden behind " conservation " You never gave anything to the community not even a single at the reptile club for the raffles ...... the freaking redtailed green rats where 12$ u.s EACH ..... Spare us the same old chorus ......or be sincere and stop having double standards ..... and make the profit that you judge ok for you ...... otherwise in good french ..... Basically ..... PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH or shut up .... Haha, i'm glad you bring that up, Stav. I'm such a mean importer doing it for money and doing disinformation to sell more, haha, you make me laugh . I import snakes so that there are captive stocks to reproduce, and i since i founded my company, i placed an average of one order per year, of which i kept most and never made a single cent of profit out of it all . It's ok, you can fight all you want and shine your image, which is totally fine. A lot of people would do the same thing if they had a value of several tens of thousands of dollars of snakes and some people would tell them that the morph business is wrong . I'm not feeding anybody with selling snakes snakes, nor paying myself trips anywhere exotic, nor buying any fancy snake morphs. I love my snakes. I love them and i'm not doing it to make neither friends or money. I'm not an importer, i'm a biology student. You have way more reasons than i do to fight and have arguments on forums, and you can have fun and impress whoever you want, it is totally fine. Defend your business and your investments, both money and time... you should!!!! We're both trying to contribute to the hobby in very different ways. I wish it would be more constructive. Anyways, in the meanwhile, i'm going to be on the other side, doing what i think is best with what i have. phil. Hummm buying trips .... exotic trips ....buying fancy snake morphs ... value of several thousands of dollars ...image .... sells .... morph business is wrong ..... wow i must be rich and i dont know it ............ good attempt all hits and all misses ..... Ok go hide behind biology student title..... and go hide behind the numbers of imports you make ..... the facts are that you buy and ressell a zillion times your cost what youre importing from the wild ....... if you truely have a conscience , and view on conservation go to europe you will find every CB colubrid you want and can imagin instead of importing wc as i told you before, and dont tell me you dont have the money , you only have to raise it even if it takes time .... but it seems you want them now by importing wc on the spot when you want them .... this is a double sided ideology ......sorry And as i said many times on this subject , I see wrong only the double sided ideology , because personnally I dont care if they are wc or cb or the profit you make or the price you sell everything .....just dont judge others like other importers all over canada and having a double standard .... And no i dont have "more" reasons to discuss it as you say ...... the only reason is my passion for reptiles all snakes in particuliar ......

Hm, i'd just like a rectification on the fact that i never meant to attack anybody personnally, and that i know i do have very sharp opinions on some subject and might seem hard to some people. I could spend hours and hours arguing with you, Stav, but after trying for a while, i concluded that you had more freetime than i had for such debates and since i dont have any interest in convincing anybody here, i'll just let you go on with your typical point-by-point pages-long posts. I can understand that you can invest so much time in such conversations, maybe for a matter of image, i believe. I always seem to regret those debates because for some reason, they always end up on jumpy personnal attacks from your part. I dont understand why you feel attacked and you have to defend yourself that way, but i dont really care. You have your forum, breed your boas, think what you think. We will do what we think is right and best, and we could probably all spare ourselves the jumpy and personnal never-ending point-by-point debate that you're so found of. Seriously, having an argument with you has not proved yet either pleasant or constructive, this ones proves it too. Let's keep this thread about colubrids and feel free to join us and share your own experience with them here, that was the original point of the thread. We will all feel happier about it and so will you. phil. yhea yhea Phil say what ever you want your views and disrespect of people are writen in your other posts .... continue selling your scholopandras that escape in peoples homes until a baby or a child is bitten and then as pogue says our hobby will really be doomed ......

lol I cant believe all this crap .... man do you really beleive yourself when you speak this way ? I suggest you re-read your posts and views . I invite you to read some directed thread and judgements mr Bistro started and direct attacks or responded in french since you seem to speak french full of jujdments on others .....let me tell you something ......its not the first we talk about all this in person and my views and says are the same as in here so mind your own business my friend ........ and the way i respond is really not of your business when you dont even know what you are talking about or what hapenned or didint happenned.... and personnally when someone says black when it fits him and white when it dosent its called pure hypocrisim..... just like i see with these texes here ......Man I cant beleive this ..... no attacks in alexes thread as well ? You really read and understand what you wanna read and understand hey Mr. pogue ? Nope I dont need fans and hypocrisim no thanks . Practice what you preach is what i practice .... even if you like it or not .... Yhea for sure you will hide behind your Napoleonistic Army to say so ......or make 100 detours ? man make me laugh .... did you really wrote "use my position - boss " ????? do you really throw importance on positions here or elsewhere ??? Do you really hear yourself write ? Hummm what a credibility .... treating everybody in this hobby that breeds morphs as shit but dont take it when someone replies by his speach ..... 3 up Mr. Pogue Hooo my god what did i done ..... nothing more than what i usuallt do ..... and as you say in the begining .... yep i'm very humoristic especially when i see people criticize but cant take the critic themselfs ......

Well, there is a couple things wrong with that statement. Its HARDLY us not being able to take someone else's differing opinion. Do you truly feel that after a 3 month conversation that has been going on here, you stumble across this thread, throw up a link to one that you started, and THIS is my introduction to you, Stav, as an individual. well sorry to dispoint you...... but thats how i'm made and here its not a popularity contest forum .... I hate judgements made on people sorry i dont tolerate them . If someone is a psychotic compulsive "screwer" in this hoby or fucks people in the hobby with proof like some years back in the states i cant remeber his name then blame what has to be blamed on him ...... If you would read french you would see how many times i've talked about the mighty $$ in this hobby , my view are the same as many things said in here and i,m not afffraid to speak it out loud ......... so someone that categorizes every body in this hobby as money makers or shitty morph breeders , or whores ..... well sorry It concerns me because I do breed morphs and not morphs and its not to anyones to judge me or whoever else ..... Forget about the rest of the post.... I've never even heard of you before, and this is your contribution to page 12 of a thread???? Forget about the rest of the ramblings in that post, this is how you communicate and attempt to debate after reading anything written here?? Yep absolutely , again sorry if it seems arrogant to you but treat people as whores as it has been made here in this thread ( again for Mr.pogue its not perssonaly attacked but i'm still part of the hobby and breed some morphs so it concerns me as well ... ) what would someone expect ? These are false statements just like people in adolescent crisis who will to say to someone like duff that his stuff is worthless or is been judged on stuff that he shouldent be judged ...... i dont know if you understand this one .... if not i'll try more .... I invite you to check the time of my last post and this one and you'll see how much time it takes me to write stuff in english ..... you know what ? maybe you should try writing a text in french and go thrue the same process I go thrue evrytime i write in english .... One thing is for sure I would never judge you on your efforts on writing in french ..... Well .....see for me I never checked the views or anything else and it never dictates me on how much info i'll give , or help , or the amount of time spent helping ..... to me I put the effort in this hobby anyways and not only in forums but in real life but real actions . You Know what ? when I go to sleep at night I feel good if i helped not only in the hobby but life generaly .... Again judgement on people with exorbitant number of posts ...... Is there something that you dont judge ? I mean would you judge lets say a chubby girl or an ugly one by your standards ? would you categorize her as a whore or somekind of sub-woman because she wouldent fit your standards ? Sorry to inform you but you are not the only ones here , there is plenty of people and its not the first time neither the last time we split or assemble same subject threads so that its easier for everyone to read and also search, being invited here dosent give you any special writes and this no matter your names ..... and for sure it will not change so if someone dosent like something about this site ..... start your own one and run it as you wish .... now is it ok ? As for a bunch that think differently .... I dont think so I have personnally some same views on some subjects .... I cant speak for others again ... Again .... "we" ..... focus on me ? these type of things along with numbers of hits a thread has seems to be very important .... are some of you seeking some king of status ? recognition or something like that ? With all the importance put on those two things it makes someone wonder ..... Well what can I say this other than this is how it is , deal with it or start your own forum and run it as you wish ..... PPS : Gina, if the tabs on Mr. P, one more for the road..........

humm for a guy that said was leaving ...... I really have absolutely no idea of why this individual feels that the entire contents of this about-to-be-defunct Thread were in any way about him personally. I can guarantee everyone reading these words that Mr. Stav's name has never come up on the Thread, nor in any of my private conversations with Lounge Members about the deplorable state of today's Reptile Hobby. Sorry, son........we really don't even know your name......certainly none of us hold you personally responsible for the awful mess that The Hobby is currently in. If you have no clue go on the other thread and read that not take anything personnally other that putting everyboy and the whole hobby in one bag and saying they are whores or think of money well sorry iÙ'm concerned as well ...... if you cant understand well sorry i cant explain it better ..... and as i said the things i can talk asbout is about me and not anyone else ..... Dont know my name ??? man make me laugh ..... if you was not as self centered by what i see here .... i dont go under a nickname .... Private conversations with lounge members ? What the heck this has to do with what I say or do ?? are in somekind of paranoia state Mr.Pogue ? By the way are free to talk to whoever you want and I dont have msn sorry No you are right .... nobody can attempt an intelligent discourse ..... and nobody here thinks anything about the whole planet .... what is it ? you dont have any real points to make and throw the discussion from side to side to pointeless areas ? ..... Are you that much self centered that there is no discernement in you mind ? You know what .... at first when I red you replies in this thread .... I thought you was joking on many aspects in your posts ..... now .... a whole new view of you comes to me when i read your name ..... And for the other part of the text ...... yeap this individual wasent here for lots of time because of reasons that are not of businness ( by the way another narcissistic view on somewthing you dont understand or know about another judgement here typical of the others made previously .... ) and I cant talk for others but I can say to you that least one told me he didint have the time to spend arguing in a thread like this .... so again dont assume anything .... dont worry if I could I would have came way earlier and express myself Mr. Assuming .... Yeap the posts of beekeeper is worthless just like genereralizing as you do and condemn people without even knowing them .... do you understand My english .... i,.ll explain it to you in person if you want if we cross paths , i dont hide behind a keeboard and can greatly express my view in person and also wont tell you youre not in the field by generalizing everything ..... Man are you serious ? hope of holding my own with most of you ? ...... how do you prtray and think about yourselfs ? ..... Is some kind of Napoleonic army where everyone sticks together to do whatever ? .... welcome adolescent crisis ...... sorry when I speak i speak by my own and on my own ..... I dont need Napoleon and his armys to debate or speak my views ....... man do you really think like that ? read everything i wrote again and again you might catch the meaning of i spoke about .... lol " I like the ..... holding the debate with most of us " .... Man ..... you really talk stuff at large right ? reject view contained here ? man do i have to rewrite a hundred times about this ? If you would read my stuff i already writen on subjects like this that come often you would probably see my views on that .... again I invite you to start a new thread on the subject , and it willl be a pleasure to participate in your inbreeding reptiles and all what comes with it ..... this said again it will be easier this way for all ........ But hey it seems that you dont really care about the ability of french people going thrue a 100 directions thread .... again me my self and my litle I .... [/quote] Yep sure .... if you say it its because its true ....... How come a guy thinks of talking about of focus of attention ..... humm to bad it never crossed my mind ...... what is it that you dont like ? Is it because that someone said other things than you own view ??? Any of us ? ...... may I speak to Mr. Napoleon and not his army when I reply to a post ?? What is it you cant speak for yourself ? Yep what a big shame ...... deception only deception .... what not hear ... yep what a shame ..... one speaks and some cant respect its views on a thread .... what a big shame Sorry Boy .... in my book someone that has a passion ....... that likes it enough to make it his way of living ....... being the first in canada to do it as a job ....... In my book is a pioneer ...... no matter his name , or sex ........ and this even if you like it or not ..... but again I dont really know why I write on this ...... your views ok ...... the rest is bullshit ..... and you cant digest what others do or dont do ppps - Since things have picked up a little here tonight, Gina has called in some help from her room-mates Giselle and Amanda. The next two rounds are on me..........just put it on my tab........I'm good for it......... [/quote] [quote]

lol Moi fermé d'esprit ??? qu'ecé qui faut pas entendre ...... je me demande si toi tu te fesais traiter de pute parceque tu aime ou aime ou aime pas quelque chose ou èa cause de tes agissements ou de la facon dont tu garde tes choses ? Yhea sure ..... i'm a kid ...... you are the first to jump on the barricades like a kid when something dosent make you happy .... please drop that .... If you are disapointed by the forum ....... well so be it ..... you are old enough and for sure as Merc Dubois said once to others seems u didint get the meaning of this forum . Rancor .... i just dont get it ...... people shit on other people because opinions and views differ from theirs and you guys cant take it when someone a different opinion .... I wonder who is narcissistic .... As for how many views or how many posts a guy does ...... it passes me 100 feet above the head this means absolutely nothing and I wonder what interest the is to check how many views there is on a thread or how many posts someone has .... its a thing that comes from time to time and i just dont understand the interest of checking this ...... And if it interests you .... it took me at least 30 views to try and understand "some" of the stuff on this thread because everything is going into a 100 directions .... so it tells you how revelant " numbers , views " id worth .... I also dont understand whats the problem of separating a thread that touches many subjects into other simpler subjects so that its easyer to understand or search ..... sorry As if I see anything directed to me .... go read the other thread it will answer your questionning ....

Nope Craig I will not challenge you anything or make you change any opinion you have .... for me every one is free to breath , eat or believe anything they want , we are in a free world at least canada and the states ..... You have an opinion on something I might have another one on one subject depending or tow persons experiences . This said , no matter views , opinions , debates etc.... lets say a boa , you dont hybernate or keep at a temperature of 10 celcius ..... do you get what I'm trying to say ? Yep I get you when you talk about people telling you that its impossible and that you hurt sales . I also get you on your other views on that as well ..... A few questions to start with before going any further on the subject : - What kind of vet was it - Did necropsies have been done on those snakes ? - If yes what type of testing ( the whole thing ) was done ? - If yes where did all go for analysis for the inclusion bodies ? - Were the snakes were euthanized while alive or necropsies done after death or even freezed and thawed ? It would be great to start from there .... if you can answer these questions as precissly as possible I would appreciate it ..... more .... if you have the pathologists ( a vet is not a pathologist just if some had the question in their minds ) report scanned this kind of info on a forum is priceless ..... Other than that , IBD Comes from some Venomous snakes and colubrids to begin with , just to inform if some people were asking themselfs . I cant talk for the states , but here in Canada its very rare and only now I heard of some case identified but cant say what kind of reptiles . My Vet never heard of any case before 2006 , I had tests done myself before that on one occasion , where I also got the info on rates of cases ( I spend from around 500$ to 1500$ a year with my vet .... just because I dont give to myself a simplist answer when a problem occurs or is about to occur no matter the problem .... i think its also the best thing to do to reverse false assomptions on deaseases that occur in reptile collections and things said at large on forums assumed by either the proprietor or an unqualified vet , is to test and treat everything thrue a qualified vet ..... it helps drop the false from truth and the maybes ..... just a litle parenthesis ) So lets start from there if you agree.... Edit *** Forgot again ..... just at large if it helps , IBD is many times missidentified by unqulified vet that dont make proper testing or no less on the subject. IBD is often Put in cause because of this instead of identifing bacteria , parasites , other viruses that cross the brain membrane and have identical signs as IBD .