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Bison Hunt to Begin Outside Yellowstone By BECKY BOHRER The Associated Press - 06/11/05 BILLINGS, Mont. — The five men said little as the slides, narrated by state wildlife officials, clicked along _ revealing the dos and don'ts of hunting bison that leave Yellowstone National Park. Do bring a handful of friends to help tend to the carcass. Don't bring any hotheads who might escalate tensions with potential protesters. "We don't know what's gonna happen here; we just want to be prepared," Harold Guse, a warden captain at the state Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, told the men during a recent hunter training class here. Hunting restrictions, the proper way to shoot bison and tips for dealing with or avoiding news reporters were also covered during the nearly one-hour class, which wildlife officials say all 50 hunters must attend before participating in the state's first bison hunt in 15 years. The three-month season opens Nov. 15. The idea behind the classes is to prepare hunters for an enjoyable experience, advising them of the law, their rights and logistics, said Ron Aasheim, an administrator with the department. An orientation was endorsed by at least one major sportsmen's group in the state and Montana's wildlife commission. "I have not heard any hunters concerned that this was condescending, or say they felt put upon," Aasheim said. "I think there's the realization that we're talking about a big animal, and I need to be prepared." There's a realization, too, that what happens in the field this fall and winter could affect future hunts. And hunters, like Thomas Blazina, want to make sure they leave their best mark as sportsmen. "I want a clean kill, not a rodeo," he said. Blazina, who's to participate in the second half of the season beginning Jan. 16, said he plans to bring at least four people with him. He also expects to ride on horses and to bring mules to help pack out. "A guy needs to get his ducks in a row, plan it out," Blazina said. He lists the weather, which can be bitterly cold in late winter, as one of his main concerns. Other hunters, like Mike Rossi, say the potential to encounter bison hunt protesters make them nervous. Animal rights activists protested the hunts of the late 1980s, when game wardens directed hunters to bison that were in some cases grazing, and shot at close range. The state Legislature banned the hunt in 1991, but, in 2003, opened the door to reviving it. State wildlife officials have said this hunt won't be run like those earlier ones. The area where bison could be hunted was also expanded from the abbreviated hunt canceled earlier this year out of concern for Montana's image. "We know there are real issues and concern with this hunt, particularly at the national level, but we've listened for 15 years and made some dramatic changes," Aasheim said. The Buffalo Field Campaign, a bison-advocacy group, has promised to document the hunt. Rossi said hunting is more than a sport to him and that the opportunity to pursue a bison _ even if he doesn't kill one _ is a dream. "To be able to hunt something that was almost extinct, what a great honor and a thrill. Just THINK about it," he said, as he waited to buy his hunting license. Aasheim said he couldn't predict how many hunters might turn out on opening day. The state is still in the throes of the big game hunting season, and weather is a key factor in bison movement from the park, he said. When Rossi goes out, he plans to carry himself proudly. "You're breaking ground here," he said. "It's one of the first, and everyone is going to be watching." 2005 Associated Press.
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Man says killing puppies with hammer justified DECATUR, Tenn. Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. — A videotape that shows a Chattanooga man beating puppies to death with a hammer does not tell the whole story, he said. Ned Proffitt, who has been charged with animal cruelty, told WTVC-TV in Chattanooga that the videotape of him beating the two pups with a hammer does not start until after he had tried to shoot a stray dog and instead shot the pups, wounding them. Proffitt told the station that when he saw the pups weren't dead, he did what he considered to be the humane thing and beat them to death with a hammer. Proffitt said his mobile home park has a problem with nuisance stray dogs and some residents have been frightened. Bobbie Fisher, a neighbor, said she "got bit up and tore up by the puppies. The mother wasn't there but I'm glad she wasn't because she's wild." Proffitt said he previously had set traps and called police, but the problem continued. Decatur and Meigs County do not have animal control officers. "I don't like to kill animals," Proffitt told WTVC. "But someone has to take responsibility. I wouldn't want those kids in the neighborhood to get hurt for anything." The video of Proffitt approaching puppies and killing them with a hammer was taken by a resident at the mobile home park, James Shelton. Shelton said he and some of his neighbors were feeding the animals until Halloween evening. The video shows Proffitt striking a black puppy in the head with a hammer. It falls to the ground and Proffitt strikes it another eight times. A moment later Proffitt is seen striking another puppy in deep grass. The video then shows the dead puppies. Decatur Mayor Dean Henry said Proffitt has other options in dealing with strays. "If we've got a phone call, notifying our police department of a stray dog, our policemen actually take a cage and go out and trap that animal," Henry said. "Then we take it to a local veterinarian and let the veterinarian care for it." Henry said Decatur is a small town and "we just don't have the funding available to have an animal control and build a shelter and everything. Our tax base just won't allow for that." Information from WTVC-TV, Chattanooga, http://www.newschannel9.com http://www.southernstandard.net/news.php?viewStory=24000
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Thousands of baboons and vervet monkeys face death
hop a posté un sujet dans Buteo, Cathou, Vegan et do
Thousands of baboons face death 01/11/2005 23:10 - (SA) Fred Katerere and Justin Arenstein Polokwane - Thousands of baboons and vervet monkeys that have been "rescued" by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animal (NSPCA) have been handed a death sentence. The non-profit organisation has decided to euthanase the primates in a bid to make space at overcrowded animal sanctuaries. NSPCA wildlife manager Rick Alan confirmed the contentious decision on Tuesday, but said the network of almost 100 often-voluntary sanctuaries had no choice. "We are quite simply overcrowded and under resourced. The NSPCA was never intended to care for wild animals. "We're not a zoo, but rather an organisation with a mandate to care for distressed dogs and cats and other domesticated animals," said Alan on Tuesday. "The problem is that we never turn injured or distressed animals away, even wild ones, and we are now facing a serious problem." Huge numbers in long-term captivity The NSPCA will provide primates placed in its care with a maximum five-day grace period, before euthanasing them. NSPCA wildlife officer Brenda Santon said: "It's tragic and not a decision we enjoyed making. "There are huge numbers of primates in long-term captivity... with very poor quality of life and severe disruptions in social patterns." Although neither Alan nor Santon could say how many primates were being cared for by the NSPCA, some of the society's sanctuaries hold up to 300 monkeys each. "We're talking huge numbers," said Santon. The worst-affected region was Limpopo, where rapid urbanisation and deforestation had disrupted the natural habitats of baboons and monkeys. Neighbouring provinces, such as Gauteng and Mpumalanga, also receive high numbers of injured or "stray" primates. "We're able to reintroduce primates to the wild without too much trouble in KwaZulu-Natal, because there are still intact habitats and free-ranging troops," said Santon. "But this is almost impossible in Limpopo or the other provinces." The NSPCA emphasised it was working with government conservation authorities and other environmental groups to try find longer-term "humane" solutions. The decision has, however, outraged animal rights activists. Sanwild Wildlife Trust and Wildlife Action Group (WAG) both slammed the decision as "appalling" on Tuesday and called for a public boycott of the NSPCA and its affiliates. Bureaucratic bottlenecks Sanwild trustee Louise Joubert said: "The NSPCA decision will have an enormous impact on South Africa's primate populations... which are already under persecution." Sanwild and WAG called on the NSPCA to instead use its considerable influence to tackle bureaucratic bottlenecks in the issuing of permits for rehabilitation of primates and other wild animals, as well as lobbying for improved financial and technical support for wildlife centres. Sanwild and WAG have set up a 24-hour hotline on mobile 083 310 3882 or email rescue@sanwild.org to advise people who find injured or lost primates. http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1827300,00.html -
Déforestation de l'Amazonie brésilienne sous-estimée de 50%
hop a répondu à un(e) sujet de Animal dans Environnement
34 personnes ont été arrêtées mercredi au cours d'une opération lancée contre la falsification d'autorisations de transport de bois illégalement coupé dans la forêt amazonienne, a-t-on appris de source officielle. Quatre cents policiers et 27 écologistes ont participé à l'opération batisée "Or Vert". La police exécutait 50 mandats d'arrêt et 78 avis de recherche concernant des personnes qui seront appelées à témoigner. (...) Amazonie : 34 arrestations pour déboisements illégaux http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-25950451@7-50,0.html -
L'astrophysicien français Hubert Reeves et le généticien canadien David Suzuki, ont sonné l'alarme mercredi, au cours d'une conférence sur le réchauffement de la planète. Ils ont insisté sur le fait que la surexploitation de la planète cause un réchauffement pourrait entraîner une disparition de l'homme. Et Suzuki a accusé le Canada de continuer à augmenter ses émissions de gaz à effet de serre malgré les accords signés à Rio et Kyoto. Réchauffement de la planète: deux scientifiques de renom sonnent l'alarme http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-25951873@7-50,0.html
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L'homeopathie utilise surtout des plantes, des minéraux, mais aussi des animaux. Ceux qu'on retrouve le plus souvent : Ambra grisea (cachalot) Apis mellifica (abeille) Bothrops lanceolatus ou Lachesis lanciolatus (serpent) Cantharis vesicatoria (mouche cantharide) Coccus cacti (cochenille) Coralium rubrum (corail) Culex (moustique) Elaps corallinus (serpent) Formica ruffa (fourmi) Lac caninum (lait de chienne) Lachesis lanciolatus ou Bothrops lanceolatus (serpent) Lachesis mutus (serpent) Latrodectes mactans (veuve noire, araignée) Mochus (chevrotain) Murex purpurea (gasteropode) Naja tripudians (serpent) Pyrogénium (putréfaction de la viande de bœuf) Rana bufo (crapaud) Sepia (seiche) Spongia tosta (éponge) Tarentula hispanica (araignée) Théridion (araignée) Vipera redi (serpent) Et, il y a bien sur les sérums (Anticolibacillaire, Yersin) préparés à partir de sérums animaux. Si l'on veut se faire soigner par l'homeopathie, il faut penser à demander au toubib ce qu'il en est, ou sinon s'acheter un petit bouquin genre poche sur les remèdes, pour vérifier que le médic n'est pas issu d'un animal, de ses sécrétions, etc...
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Eating Disorder China's appetite for exotic wildlife has spawned a thriving black market in Asia's endangered species. Will pangolin be eaten into extinction? BY SIMON ELEGANT | PALEMBANG Monday, Sep. 26, 2005 It is just after dawn in the hills of South Sumatra, but Jema'ah is hard at work. Jema'ah, 39, normally feeds his family of four by tramping from village to village buying vegetables from farmers and then reselling them to dealers, a practice that nets him about $40 in a good month. Today, if he's lucky, he will earn twice that in a few hours. "Pangolin are usually asleep in their nests at this time of day," he says, squatting down in front of a rabbit-hole-sized opening in a low embankment. After piling dried leaves and twigs in front of the burrow, he digs out a box of matches and sets the kindling alight, producing a thick cloud of white smoke. If the pangolin, a scaly anteater that looks like a cross between an armadillo and an opossum, isn't smoked out of its lair soon, Jema'ah (who like most Indonesians goes by one name) will set off again through the forest, clutching a shopping list of animals that he has been instructed to seek out by a dealer in illegal wildlife from the coastal town of Bengkulu. "I never knew before that snakes and turtles were valuable," Jema'ah says, "let alone pangolin." When he started hunting a few years back, the dealer took him to the zoo in Bengkulu to point out which animals were most profitable. "That was the first and last time that someone took me to a zoo," Jema'aah says with a grin. If he gets really lucky, Jema'ah will come across a tiger's pug marks, the report of which alone will earn him $5. Fanning the flames in front of the hole, he shakes his head in bemusement. "It beats me. Why would anyone want a tiger or a pangolin?" Part of the answer can be found in the Herbal Encyclopedia, a dictionary of traditional Chinese medicine compiled some four centuries ago that lists 461 animals with organs that purportedly have curative powers. They include the rapidly vanishing tiger and the unfortunate pangolin. According to the dictionary, pangolin scales can be "used to cure tumefaction [swelling], promote blood circulation and help breast-feeding mothers produce milk." If he wanted a more up-to-date answer, Jema'ah could also have asked Wei Hong, a Guangdong native in his mid-30s who developed a taste for pangolin meat when his father bought some 20 years ago in the hope of curing a skin disease. With the meat now selling at an exorbitant $100 a kilogram, Wei, a journalist, must depend on others to indulge his taste for the exotic. He got lucky in January when he attended a dinner thrown by an executive at a large state-owned company. "They steamed the pangolin with boiled mineral water instead of normal water," he recalls. "The meat tasted really fresh, light and delicious." China's forests once teemed with pangolin. But the reproductive capacity of the slow-moving mammal is no match for Chinese appetites, and pangolins have been all but eradicated on the mainland. Now gourmets, traditional medicine practitioners and businessmen looking to show off their wealth rely on the likes of Jema'ah. But even in distant Sumatran forests, the pangolin is growing harder to find. "I used to catch big ones" of up to 20 kilograms, Jema'ah says. "But the biggest I catch these days are eight kilos." Pangolin are not the only species being driven toward extinction across Asia by China's demand for exotic, edible wildlife. "As purchasing power in China grows, demand has just exploded," says James Compton, who runs the Southeast Asia office of TRAFFIC, the most prominent group fighting the illegal wildlife trade worldwide. Tim Redford, a Bangkok-based researcher for the conservation group WildAid, estimates that between 1% and 10% of smuggled animals are seized by government officials in efforts to combat an illegal industry worth billions of dollars annually. Between 1999 and 2003, Chinese authorities alone seized 18,850 live endangered wild animals, including lizards, pythons, turtles and rare fish. The slaughter is so extensive in Asia that traditional sources of supply have all but dried up for the most popular animals, and traders are forced to go farther afield to secure their prey. Poachers looking to fill orders for the popular pig-nosed turtle, which is prized both as a pet and for its meat, have to venture as far as the remote Indonesian province of Papua. Those pursuing live reef fish, a Chinese delicacy particularly popular in booming southern China, have appeared in the Solomon Islands and on the island of Mauritius off the coast of Africa. A thorough and detailed list of animals that are endangered—and thus banned in all trade—already exists in the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, which was established in 1975. But huge profits, widespread corruption, underfunding of enforcement agencies and a lack of political will mean that the bans enacted in the treaty are often ineffective, conservationists say. "It's a very pessimistic situation," Redford says gloomily. Evidence collected by WildAid suggests that increased seizures in recent years aren't so much evidence of more vigilance by governments as a sharp growth in the trade itself. A recent study by Conservation International concluded that worldwide, less than 1% of natural resource crimes result in punishment or sanctions. Even when lawbreakers are caught, the study pointed out, existing laws provide very little deterrence when compared to the potential profits. In the Philippines, for example, illegal fishing using dynamite and cyanide in the Calamian Islands earns fishermen an average of $70.57 per trip. The potential fine if they are caught: 9¢. A longtime wildlife dealer in the Sumatran city of Bengkulu sums up the problems facing enforcement officers in the region: "We never have to worry about the police when transporting animals. Most don't even know or care that it's considered a crime," he says with a laugh. "And the ones who do are already in the business and making money themselves." The combination of soaring demand and lax enforcement is leading to a potentially catastrophic situation for the region's wildlife, activists say. "At the current rate there is a very good chance that we will lose a lot of species before we even know where they are or anything about them," says TRAFFIC's Compton. China is not the only culprit, of course. Nations such as Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam all have thriving underground markets in wildlife products. And dealers from America and Europe travel the region to stock up on snakes, geckos, flying lizards and other exotic pets. But the sheer scale of demand from China makes everything else pale into insignificance. Up to 80% of the illegal wildlife smuggled out of Southeast Asia is headed for China, says Steve Galster, who heads WildAid's Bangkok office. Illegal traders have had to adapt to the changed marketplace. "I had to take a crash course in Mandarin," laughs Hendrawan, an affable young Indonesian who runs a sprawling wildlife processing facility in South Sumatra. "My family is Chinese but we don't speak it at home, so when business began to go through the roof a few years ago, I had to take lessons." Hendrawan stands in the slaughtering yard surrounded by piles of yellow and green intestines, the concrete floor awash with blood. On the right, a group of men squat on the floor in a row, holding a four-meter reticulated python. Even in the dim light of the slaughtering shed, the crisscross pattern of green, yellow, henna and black stripes that gave the snake its name glows with vivid life. The men flip the wriggling creature over, exposing its white underbelly. With practiced ease the python is slit open and gutted, then flung into a corner amidst the hoses and plastic buckets full of blood to await skinning, its vibrant colors already fading. Other workers are packing skinned and eviscerated water monitors into cardboard boxes marked "Frozen Fish." The boxes are stacked onto hand trolleys and rolled over to one of several refrigerated containers lined up next to each other. One worker swings open the door, releasing a frigid blast into the humid tropical air. Inside, hundreds of other boxes stacked from floor to ceiling are visible. "We can send one or two containers out a week," Hendrawan says. Chances of interception on the way to buyers are small. In 2001, for example, China banned all direct imports of live freshwater turtles from Indonesia in an attempt to stem the flow, notes Compton of TRAFFIC. The main effect was to force dealers to find alternate air routes through second countries like Malaysia, he says, or increase their reliance on the porous land borders. "We pack a layer of legal turtles on top, then put thousands of illegals underneath," says the Bengkulu dealer. "And often it's as easy as just putting a false label on the boxes. The customs officers in China must think their countrymen eat an awful lot of fish." One way or another, shipments of endangered species to China will inevitably start to decline. In a worst-case scenario, supply will simply dry up as animal populations shrink. Right now, the Chinese "take everything we have," says Hendrawan, who runs the reptile abattoir. "They always ask for more, but snakes are getting harder and harder to find, especially the pythons. The minimum size is 2.5 meters. It used to be we could find many of even 7 and 8 meters but now we are happy with 4 meters." WildAid's Galster says a better solution is to eliminate demand. "If we could get the Chinese public to stop buying and consuming this stuff," he says, "it would have a huge positive impact." But eating exotic animals and using them for ancient medicines are practices deeply rooted in Chinese culture. There have been fleeting signs of change. In June, the soon-to-open Hong Kong Disneyland took shark's fin soup off the menu following public protests over the damage that widespread consumption of the popular Chinese dish was doing to global shark populations. During the 2003 SARS crisis, wildlife activists dared to hope—briefly—that real change was possible. Scientists concluded that SARS had passed from wild civet cats to humans, most likely because the civets are a popular winter dish in China's ye wei or "wild taste" restaurants, which specialize in exotic meats. To safeguard public health, China's wild animal markets were closed, and ye wei restaurants emptied out as officials strictly enforced existing laws with frequent inspections and fines. But within four months, the markets were open again. Now, two years after SARS, the wildlife trade is back in full swing, albeit more discreetly than before. Take the Guangzhou Snake Bird Animal Fair Market, the largest animal market in southern China. While many of the market's sellers appeared to be idling away their time one recent day, playing mahjong or smoking, their mobiles rang regularly as restaurants or familiar customers placed orders. "Now deals are usually carried out at dawn or dusk to avoid government inspectors," says Lao Xu, who sells hunting tridents and fermenting jars at the market. "If you want any wild animal, from Brazil turtles to pangolin, I can arrange for it to be delivered to your designated restaurant within several hours." In a twisted way, the animals may yet get their revenge. AIDS is now believed to have passed from apes to humans through the consumption of chimpanzee meat. SARS killed 774 people in late 2002 and 2003. A recent report by the New York-based Wildlife Conservation Society warns that similar outbreaks of exotic and virulent viruses may become more common as contact between wild animals and humans in the trade (estimated in the report at 1 billion contacts last year) increases and hunters venture into remote jungle areas in pursuit of wildlife. "Outbreaks resulting from wildlife trade have caused hundreds of billions of dollars of economic damage globally," the report notes, adding that because it is centered around a series of well-known hubs, containing the trade would not be particularly hard. There are some signs that the message is finally sinking in, says Compton of TRAFFIC. "There's more political will out there to do something about this issue than there ever has been before," he says, noting that the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations agreed in May to a five-year plan to combat threats to the region's biodiversity. "Now it remains to be seen if they'll commit the resources to back that up, put their money where their mouths are." Last week, amid an outbreak of avian flu in Indonesia that has sickened 20 and killed two, the U.S. State Department announced the formation of an international coalition to lobby Asian governments to tighten the screws on wildlife smugglers. Asia can only hope that it doesn't take a deadly pandemic to save the pangolin. —With reporting by Zamira Loebis/Bengkulu and Bu Hua/Shanghai From the Oct. 03, 2005 issue of TIME Asia Magazine http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501051003-1109398,00.html
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La calotte glaciaire arctique s'est fortement réduite cette année et ce pour le quatrième été consécutif, ont indiqué mercredi des scientifiques américains, selon lesquels ce phénomène, attribué au réchauffement du climat, va probablement s'accélérer. (...) "A ce rythme, l'Arctique n'aura plus de glace pendant la saison d'été bien avant la fin de ce siècle", a-t-elle ajouté. Forte réduction de la calotte glaciaire arctique pour le 4e été consécutif - AFP http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-25772304@7-50,0.html
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Les militants me fichent le bourdon !
hop a répondu à un(e) sujet de hop dans Buteo, Cathou, Vegan et do
Insultes et accusations nauséabondes, menaces de procès ! ça sent la vieille haine rance : beurk ! (déjà, même fraîche, ça ne sent jamais très bon ;) ) ! Certains paraissent avoir plus de détestation les uns pour les autres que pour ceux qui oppressent et tuent les animaux. Quelle tristesse et quel gâchis d'énergie ! Bon, ben... bonne journée quand même les filles -
Les militants me fichent le bourdon !
hop a répondu à un(e) sujet de hop dans Buteo, Cathou, Vegan et do
Excusez moi, mais j'étais en retard pour préparer le repas, ma soeur devait bientôt passer faire un petite halte avant de reprendre la route pour Toulouse. Voilà l'histoire : En fait, quelques semaines avant la****, il m'a semblé qu’il y avait comme un changement dans son attitude vis à vis de moi ; alors qu’il m’avait dit qu’il aurait pas mal de boulot à me proposer vu qu’il était débordé, finalement il ne le faisait pratiquement pas, et me donnait peu de nouvelles et le ton de ses mails était assez sec…des choses comme ça. Je me suis dit : soit il n’est plus satisfait de notre collaboration, soit il est trop débordé…et j’ai attendu que la ****soit passée pour lui en toucher un mot. J’étais quand même inquiète et un peu mécontente de son attitude et je lui ai dit, mais en tournant les choses en dérision, pour atténuer l‘effet. Très mauvaise idée ; l’humour et la dérision, c’est pas son truc et en, plus, c’est tombé à un moment où il allait très mal. Donc il m’a répondu sèchement et à terminé par quelquechose comme : chacun sa merde , merci pour ton aide passée. Bye Il m’a contacté 1 ou 2 mois après, ( avec une certaine d’hypocrisie : " je ne comprends pas ton silence, etc…" ) quand il a eu besoin de moi pour que je dissipe un malentendu auprès de plusieurs personnes qui prétendaient ici et là que était un pseudo à lui . J’ai dissipé le malentendu. Et voilà. :evil: -
Les militants me fichent le bourdon !
hop a répondu à un(e) sujet de hop dans Buteo, Cathou, Vegan et do
J'allais vous répondre et hop ! je réalise qu'il est temps que je prépare le repas. Je repasserai par là ce soir tard, sans doute. Sinon, sur Ethiquanimal ça commence ici, je crois : Message n° 19558 - Des antispecistes detruisent la cause animal en france!!! ( de David Jemappele ) SCANDALE : pour ceux qui ne sont pas encore au courant, voici les écrits pro-zoophilie de certains antispecistes qui sont à l'origine des cahiers antispecistes, de la veggie-Pride, de Loen et des Estivales (où un de leurs copains pro-pédophilie dela secte de "la Communauté de la Thébaïde" a été invité pour y tenir une conférence POUR la pédophilie en 2002): (...) -
Avez-vous lu les horribles échanges qui ont eu lieu pendant 2 jours sur la liste ethiquanimal ? Je n'en croyais pas mes yeux. Une chose me secoue spécialement ; Après la ****, je me suis disputée avec ********** avec qui je collaborais depuis l'année dernière. On avait divers projets qui me tenaient à coeur et vlan, voilà t-y pas qu'il m'envoie sur les roses. Bon, ça m'avait fichu un sacré cafard et puis aussi, j'étais sciée ! Les contacts via internet sont vraiment tellement trompeurs. Tu collabores avec qq'un, tu as des échanges quotidiens, tu as l'impresssion d'être en confiance et soudain, tu réalises que tu t'es plantée du tout au tout sur la personne. Alors, avec ses mails affreux sur ethiquanimal, là...c'est le ponpon !
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Nouvelles, articles pour bulletin... ?
hop a répondu à un(e) sujet de hop dans Buteo, Cathou, Vegan et do
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